PDA

View Full Version : Irratic Idle,white Smoke Now No Start Passat Tdi 97



craigdix
08-11-2007, 06:07 PM
hi guys,im new so bear with me if you can! i have a passat tdi (97) hatchback,:confused:problem is
:zx11: i had an irregular idle that fluxuated when foot was not even on gas,i had a look and did see air bubbles in the filter line ? in the morning it never started ,so i chaged fuel filter, and glow plugs,changed oil changed coolant,STILL NOTHING,so in desperation i sprayed wd40 on the wires etc recharged battery,and after a while it turned over yipppeeee!!,then again this morning NOTHING again, checked injectors bled them,checked fuel pump etc ,4 days later im still no further forward with it:1zhelp: i turn the key and oil light now flashes?(is that normal?) all i get is unburned fuel from the exahuast(white smoke) ,so i checked wiring harness to the glow plugs which is fine!!!!
im at a loss of what to try next any information will be most helpfull .
thanx in advance

adamss24
08-11-2007, 06:40 PM
Hi, do you wanna sell it ? Regards, Chris-07841206564.

craigdix
02-12-2007, 11:38 PM
HI,THANKS BUT NO THANKS,if you have and information regarding this problem i would appreciate it,
i have changed glow plugs and g/p harness, relay 109,fuel filter,battery,starter,fuel lines,oil,oil filter,,hard start or no start when cold,if left to cool down no start again,only starts on a bump only get white unburnt fuel from tail pipe, i had air in fuel return pipe so replaced filter,also checked the in tank filter also had fuel pipes blown through, no codes to read on code reader (PURCHASED TESTER)
tested all relays and wiring with meter,can SOMEONE help thanks craig

the_old_diver
03-12-2007, 10:08 AM
Hi Mate,
I had similar symptoms on my Passat (a TD Umwelt 1996, 210,000 miles) and it turned out to be a broken key on the cam belt pulley where it slots on to the crankshaft. This allowed the pulley to move around a little so the timing varied. The white "smoke" was actually unburnt fuel. My garage had also replaced all the things which weren't at fault :-(

Cheers.

craigdix
03-12-2007, 03:55 PM
hi thanks i,ll get that looked at,I RECHECKED THE WIRING TO THE IN TANK FUEL PUMP and found it to be 0.20v can any one tell me if this is normal or should it be 12v i also checked the relay again and it seems to work i.e.click when turing key and checked it through 12v battery and also clicks regards craig

Col
03-12-2007, 04:58 PM
Have you had it read for faults ?

My guesses are;

Cam / crank position sensor(s)
Needle lift sensor on injector Nr3
Imobiliser.

But they are all guesses.

Go to the vagcom sub-forum here to find someone who may be able to help or have a look at Eshrules Enterprises and others with a view to setting yourself up with vagcom.

Checking the car for fault codes is the only way forwards !

craigdix
03-12-2007, 06:51 PM
hi thanks col,
i'll get looking at that in the morning,(is there anyway to test cam sensor?)

had it tested on an obe reader and had no codes,only the codes were the ones from unplugging the power supply to the units,can you tell me if the 0.20v to the fuel pump (intank) is normal or should it read 12v,as i was going to bypass and put it straight to a 12v supply to see if it stars the car any easier? if i crank and crank and crank it does eventually start but takes up tp 15min of cranking,starter starting to smoke so trying to be a we bit more cautious.
thanks again for your info regards craig
ps no imobiliser

Col
03-12-2007, 08:50 PM
They don't have a tank mounted pump and what you may have been testing was the fuel level sender. ;)

You must get the car read for faults.

craigdix
04-12-2007, 11:58 AM
ooooooooooooppppss,well at least i know what it is now.
BTW its a 1996 car(n) reg,does that make any differance to the cam sensor position(location), i have the mitchel on demand system on cd and cannot locate the cam sensor?,only says cold start injector are they the same? ive had a scan with the reader i bought,but is that an appropriate reader?or do you recomend a vag scan?
once i have the car started it runs perfect no missing or irratic idle etc its gr8,i just cant get it started when cold:confused: ????? thanx again craig

craigdix
04-12-2007, 03:13 PM
ive just been out for the past 4 hrs in pssn rain up to my knees in mud
( as i live on a farm,)
had it checked with code reader and no codes,checked all connections with meter and they also read fine :confused:#
turned ignition after dryin myself off and still crank crank crank????????
pushed it 5ft jumped in and 2nd gear and away it went, took it for a run with no probs.
i am now grey haired and dreaming about my car (sad) i know
checked timing belt position and thats fine:aargh4:
i live 5miles away from the nearest village and its a hell of a walk in the rain/snow, so i need my car fixed
ANYONE ANY IDEAS?
regards dripping wet and filthy.:mad:

the_old_diver
04-12-2007, 05:05 PM
"checked timing belt position and thats fine"

Hi, I can only comment on my own experience, but the cam belt pulley on the crankshaft always seemed to stop in the "correct" position, so when the garage checked the timing it always seemed to be OK. It was only when the engineer physically grabbed the cam belt pulley that he noticed it would rotate a little back and forth, throwing the timing out and creating the Red Arrows display... and it would run OK some of the time.

Just my two cents worth...

kenney
04-12-2007, 08:39 PM
Sounds to me that, there is a leakage ,on the fuel supply line or the return line,this is possible without seeing any fuel leaking out.What is your engine code

craigdix
05-12-2007, 12:02 PM
hi kenny,
the eng.code is I.Z......CTN

EVEN IF I SEE NO AIR IN PIPES I CAN STILL HAVE A LEAK THEN?
and will i have to replace all pipes or just the ones in the engine compartment.
i have only replace the inlet fuel pipe from the tank to the filter.
thanx again for everyones help

craigdix
05-12-2007, 12:10 PM
p.s can it also leak in the small return pipes that lead from the injectors in the return to the pump?
:beerchug:
i will also look at the cam pulley,when it stops raining ;)

kenney
05-12-2007, 07:15 PM
Yes that is right it can leak without seeing it,the return hoses you speak of ,you can normally see these for leakage(diesel smell) as these are under pressure,they cost so little so change all of them.However,my main suspect is the control valve on top of the diesel filter,the valve and the o ring under it are easy to damage after changing the filter,the valve has an arrow on top which points towards the tank.Have a look at these items and if it does not help,i will get back to you and we can take the next step.

radupinti
13-04-2008, 02:29 AM
Hello
I've got the same problem with my audi a6 tdi,can you please let me know what was wrong with yours , i have already spent over £220 and no results.I have changed the glowplugs ,new battery,starter ,checked the fuel links.Please help!

the_old_diver
13-04-2008, 10:17 PM
As no-one else seems to have spotted your question, I'd suggest that maybe the cambelt pulley on the end of the crankshaft has become worn on it's keyway, throwing out the valve and fuel pump timing in relation to the pistons...

But I hope it's something less severe in your case :-)

Cheers, OD

JohnSt
20-04-2008, 10:14 AM
Craig,
Did you sort this issue yet?
If not & assuming you hav't set fire to it yet! consider the ignition switch i had most of the symtons on my tdi you seem to have. It ran rough and would only start with easy start or with a bump start.
It transpired to be no electric to the ECU due to the dogey ignition switch.
I dont know if this will show up on plug in fault test.

Sleigh
01-02-2009, 06:22 PM
Looks like a worthwhile join to this forum..seems better than most i've had a look at..thanks

So to update, i've similar probs on a 96 TDI

What does relay 109 do
And how much play would you need to put everything out of kilter on the pulleys

I'm going to have a look at return pipes, had, had a quick glance was looking at things more electrical as prom was a bit more sudden on mine.. ran rough for 30 secs.. did 1500 miles.. did same again then wouldn't start..
Done the normal.. filters, glo plugs, Non return valve in fuel system, changed injector pump, pump timing correct

the_old_diver
01-02-2009, 08:03 PM
..seems better than most i've had a look at..

It is.

Welcome Mr S. Firstly, it might help to list your specific symptoms. I recall that relay 109 powers the sensors and the ECU. I don't know exactly how much play on the timing belt pulley will cause problems, but I have had the problem develop on my AAZ within 100 miles; in other words a slight difficulty in starting was followed by total non-running within that mileage.

If you haven't done so already, get the fault codes read using a laptop and a VAG-COM cable. £15 or so. There is no way round it - any other course of action will likely just make the spares dealer more money as you replace things that are fine. There is a search facility at the top of the page which will guide you to relevant threads.

Hope this helps. OD

lawman301
01-02-2009, 09:51 PM
hi did you find out want was wrong has my car is going the same thanks

Alfred1
06-02-2009, 12:53 AM
Passats have a real problem with the key on the cam belt bottom pulley/sproket wearing and even though it seems tight it makes very hard starting and uneven idling and sometimes speed fluctuation whilst driving. The answer is a new pulley at around £ 30.00p. and ideally a new belt at the same time. Before fitting the sprocket put Loctite bearing lock on the mating faces, it stops it moving again. I didn`t do it the first time and learnt the hard way.