PDA

View Full Version : Need oil after 4k miles - VW 509 00 spec for 3.0 TDi



brummygit
07-01-2017, 12:07 AM
My MY 2017 3.0TDi A6 BE has asked for oil after just 4,000 miles. I'm quite surprised to need it so soon - is this usual?

Also it seems that I should use VW 509 00 spec oil which was only released in June/July 2016. It does list VW 507 00 as an alternative. I don't know whether I should really go out of my way to find the 509 spec oil or just use the 507. On reading it seems that the new oil is low viscosity 0W/20 and I wonder if I will notice a difference or even if its the reason for using oil so quickly?

Gazwould
07-01-2017, 12:50 AM
Bang in the 5W30 507.00 , there is 4 Centistokes difference in viscosity between the two and no oil performance data as yet .

I don't expect it to eclipse 507.00 as it's primarily developed for mpg thus lowering emissions , also has efficiency bhp and torque gains through less drag .

belly buster
07-01-2017, 06:01 PM
Might depend a lot on the type of driving, but I don't think it is usual to be adding oil at 4k miles to that engine. Unless it was short filled from new for some reason.

A6S
07-01-2017, 06:22 PM
How much are we talking about here?
Has a message come up saying low oil or is it just the mmi showing somewhere between min and max?
I added about 500-600ml in the first 3k then about 500ml per 5k. The v6's uses a bit more oil than the 4 pots.

brummygit
07-01-2017, 06:37 PM
I received a low oil message on the MMI which told me to add up to 1l. I've ended up putting in a litre of Castrol Edge 507.00, as couldn't find 509.00, which has put me back to the maximum marker.

ukgroucho
07-01-2017, 10:26 PM
Wow I've never added any oil to my BiTdi in approaching 40k miles. I did have to add a little to my old C6 3.0 Tdi at one point in the 80k miles that I had it but nothing much.

I do wonder if driving gently from cold is a factor in this. I'm pretty fixated on not giving the car too much stress until I see oil temp pick up.

A6S
08-01-2017, 01:14 AM
Wow I've never added any oil to my BiTdi in approaching 40k miles. I did have to add a little to my old C6 3.0 Tdi at one point in the 80k miles that I had it but nothing much.

I do wonder if driving gently from cold is a factor in this. I'm pretty fixated on not giving the car too much stress until I see oil temp pick up.

In all my cars I let it warm up before giving it some. Sometimes it's difficult cause I'm 2 minutes from motorway so at motorway cruising speeds before it warms up. My 177 and 190 ultra didn't use a drop between services so was surprised that the 272 has used some. All bought from new.

I would say a litre in 4K is not excessive. I can remember Subaru told my mate that 7L is normal between 10k services in his sti. That's more than an oil change. He quickly got rid of that time bomb.

Crasher
08-01-2017, 02:08 AM
VAG will not act until the specific consumption exceeds 0.5L per 620 miles...

ukgroucho
08-01-2017, 02:41 AM
I would say a litre in 4K is not excessive. I can remember Subaru told my mate that 7L is normal between 10k services in his sti. That's more than an oil change. He quickly got rid of that time bomb.

Don't use Subaru as a yardstick cos they are boxer engines (flat cylinder layout - like my old BMW 1100RS). I suspect they behave a bit different to an "upright" V.

Sy1441
08-01-2017, 10:59 AM
My 2009 A5 2.0 TFSI used to drink the stuff. Was putting in 5 litres every 10,000 miles or thereabouts. Haven't put any in my current C-Class in the last 30,000. I'm sure my inbound A6 will be somewhere between the 2.

Crasher
08-01-2017, 03:59 PM
My 2009 A5 2.0 TFSI used to drink the stuff

The EA888 engine has had some nightmarish issues with oil consumption, it was down to the low tension piston rings designed to reduce friction. Also I don't think the run for 18K/2 years from new is a good idea no matter how exotic a formulation that first sump full of oil may be.

Justinos
08-01-2017, 06:55 PM
Nothing unusual with this consumption rate, I'm slightly better, at 4,500 miles per 1 litre, and that's after 85,000 miles in a 3.0 tdi 2012. Initially I was concerned, but have been monitoring it since 20k miles, which is when I bought it at 12 months old, oil consumption was increasing, but over the last 30k miles it hasn't deviated. When it changes thats when I would be concerned. Having said that when I replace the car with a new one, I will be doing an earlier initial oil change, as this is probably where all the wear takes place. Cars seem to be built these days just to last the usual 3-4 year lease period.

jbmercapple
08-01-2017, 08:54 PM
Must admit I'm surprised at the high oil consumption quoted. Thought with modern engines and oil it was a thing of the past. My E220cdi merc never used a drop in 11 years and 100k miles. My BiTdi is now 4 year old on 45k miles and I've never topped up between services.
I always drive gently until warmed up so that may be a factor?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Justinos
08-01-2017, 10:28 PM
I agree entirely, never had a car use oil at this rate, but its static, and not a level Audi deem as a problem, but they have set the rate, so they would say that wouldn't they. I guess each engine is different, has been run in differently, so will use oil at different rates as the tolerances have been worn differently during this initial period. I think the major culprit is service intervals, hence I will run shorter intervals on the next car. Keeping revs low whilst cold will also impact this massively. I have the same problem as on the motorway within 5 mins of starting up.

The upside is between services the engine is getting plenty of fresh oil, so the quality during this period should be better than a car that isn't being topped up at all.

A3Colin
01-03-2017, 01:02 PM
I have a 66-plate A3 TDI 2.0L and the first oil level warning came on at 9,500 miles - I added 0.5L and at 12,500 (today) the warning re-appeared. If I assume the level warning sensor trigger is repeatable, that equates to 1L per 6,000 miles. As "Crasher" pointed out, the stated limit in the manuals is 1L per 1000 km (620 miles). All I can say is that in my previous 3 new diesel cars [from Ford, BMW and Volvo] I never needed to top up the oil between services. I'm not impressed, and this level of consumption would influence my decision on having another VW Group product.

zollaf
01-03-2017, 01:27 PM
wow, so you would not choose a car because it needs a litre of oil every 6,000 miles. ???

Tendaimwari
01-03-2017, 01:54 PM
After reading this thread I'd advise most contributors to stay clear of Audi performance engines and stick to diesels. My previous S3, S4 (V8) and RS4 (V8) oil consumption was always on the limit, 1lts/1000km. Moving to a V6 diesel and hearing horrors stories of ltr/9000km fills me with dread...........

Crasher
01-03-2017, 01:59 PM
this level of consumption would influence my decision on having another VW Group product.

It is something all makes seem to suffer from now, the manufacturers have been pushed into using insanely thin low tension ring packs, often 0.9-mm, 1-mm, 2-mm instead of the old 1.5-mm, 2-mm, 4-mm on older engines. These produce much less friction in conjunction with high tech bore surface finishes BUT with the super slippy thin oils (often 0w/30 now) it gets past the rings and burnt. This is all because of the blinkered obsessive reduction of Co2 at the expense off all else, hence why we are now in the **** over filthy diesel engines and we can expect the same level of nightmare in about 20 years time when the realisation that electric cars are a crap idea, hits home.

Crasher
01-03-2017, 02:02 PM
I'd advise most contributors to stay clear of Audi performance engines and stick to diesels.

1st prize for the worst piece of advice of the day. :flowers1:

zollaf
01-03-2017, 02:37 PM
not forgetting that modern engines are factory filled with synthetic oil so never actually get a chance to 'run in'. but who would buy a car today if the instructions told you to drive at no more than 50 mph for 1,000 miles, then change the oil, then 3000 miles at 55 mph, then change the oil ???

Crasher
01-03-2017, 05:14 PM
not forgetting that modern engines are factory filled with synthetic oil so never actually get a chance to 'run in'.

It's a very good point but I like the idea of a first service check over, however in this instant world we live in people just don't have time. The number of people who bring cars in and you get the feeling they could do with it back yesterday, ohh and for you to pay them.....

zollaf
01-03-2017, 05:31 PM
time time time, no time to do anything.. but can browse the internet for hours.
i got one customer, never got time to do anything, even to drive his k04'd s4. (thats sat in a shed , ready to go) but can spend 3 days and make 100 phone calls to get the best price on some rear discs and pads for his golf.
its madness, the worlds going mad, i'm mad, and now have to go change a side marker light on a minibus, cos the custromer forgot to tell me its going out tomorrow.

Crasher
01-03-2017, 06:36 PM
The problem with this best price attitude is quality is getting worse and worse. I have a Skoda Superb on my lift that needed a new exhaust centre and back box, £219.44 for the centre box and £346.18 for the back box. The chap wanted genuine and was prepared to pay for it but the centre box went obsolete and the back box never turned up until today, after I cancelled it and ordered an aftermarket system which was cheap but the fit is awful. That middle box is only used on the up to 2008 Superb TDI so how can VAG justify making it obsolete and forcing me to fit cheap ****?

zollaf
01-03-2017, 07:09 PM
a 9 year old vag needs a new exhaust, whatb happened to making them properly in the first place. mines 22 and doing well.

Crasher
01-03-2017, 07:30 PM
The Skoda Superb only mid box was falling to bits, the Passat back box is part stainless but the hangers were falling off.

Gazwould
01-03-2017, 07:34 PM
Stop making the bits and people buy a newer car , marketing..

RhysoTDI
01-03-2017, 08:12 PM
For reference my 2012 3.0TDI didn't use a drop of oil between me buying it with 73,000 miles in the clock and it's next service at 84,000k

Its now on 89300 and the oil level is still showing at the top :)

my old PD170 A3 however used at least 0.5-1L every 7500 miles

jcdub
01-03-2017, 08:59 PM
I'm all for running in a car gently from new for the first 1000-1200 miles. Then drop the oil. Drive it for the next 3-4k miles fairly hard ensure its properly warmed up beforehand. Drive are you normally would after that. Dropping the oil after the 3-4k miles of hard driving is optimal. I did this on all my new cars and they barely used any oil if any in between services. Could have been luck too 😇

Justinos
05-03-2017, 10:12 PM
I'm all for running in a car gently from new for the first 1000-1200 miles. Then drop the oil. Drive it for the next 3-4k miles fairly hard ensure its properly warmed up beforehand. Drive are you normally would after that. Dropping the oil after the 3-4k miles of hard driving is optimal. I did this on all my new cars and they barely used any oil if any in between services. Could have been luck too 😇

I think the issue with this is if they are filled with synthetic at the factory, you don't get the traditional bedding in that you would get if using running in oil. My Z4M from 2008 required an oil change at 1200 mikes for this reason.

Dutch Paddy
06-03-2017, 10:53 AM
Based on the previous post on oil consumption...are the 3ltr engines smoky? You would nearly expect that if that much oil is burned...I've only had 'long term' experience with a 2 liter Multitronic and it never needed oil between services and it had 110K miles up when I traded it in.

Justinos
06-03-2017, 05:40 PM
Based on the previous post on oil consumption...are the 3ltr engines smoky? You would nearly expect that if that much oil is burned...I've only had 'long term' experience with a 2 liter Multitronic and it never needed oil between services and it had 110K miles up when I traded it in.

No, not smokey at all. My BMW 330d was smokier, as was an Avensis 2.0d under full throttle. Nothing with the A6 at all.