Bio-Diesel anyone?

[Huweth]

Right, in a month, I get my 1.9 TDI PD 2001 Sport. Only 47k, owned by a friend who loves his car more than his wife (and he loves her a lot).
I'm excited at the prospect of running Bio-Diesel in it. I've spent many hours now, researching it, especially for this particular car. There's plenty around about other TDIs, but not this one.

Has anyone used Biodiesel in their 130 BHP TDI PD? (from around 2001). What did you find?

If you want to know more, I found http://www.bio-power.co.uk/ a very informative site. It's not just about selling the stuff, the people know what they're doing.

VW in Exeter couldn't tell me if you can use Biodiesel in the car, even after they'd asked around. (there are potentially lots of issues)

I called Bio-Power in Plymouth, the helpful, knowledgable chap knew exactly the engine I had, and assured me that it's fine with bio-diesel. VW aftersales lives up to it's name again!:mad:

I just want to here it from some VAG enthusiasts that it's fine.

The idea of paying 15p a litre less than normal is nice, as is being carbon neutral!
:biglaugh:

P.s. This is a great community on here, well done VWAUDIFORUM.CO.UK!!!

[stevenm]

Check the handbook, I've got a 1997 1.9 TDI there is a section on Bio-diesel in there.

Bio-diesel should be OK, SVO is another story.

Regards

Stevenm

[salty]

I have been using bio in my audi 1.9 its great more mpg engine quieter but speak to the supplier i use reclamed oil (smells better than diesel but can make you feel hungry)they recomend 65%but if you are using new rape it is ok for 100% untill the temp drops around november then they say go to 50% the only manufactures that have recomended bio areVW AUDI SKODA SEAT from 1990-2004 but i will say again speak to your supplier
salty

[Huweth]

Cheers Salty,
Have you got a PD engine? What year is it? Mileage before/after using Biodiesel? Did you have to change filters etc...?
Cheers.

P.s. I've found a supplier that is about to start trading near Exeter in September.
They are at http://www.turbobits.co.uk/

[v542ecj]

Hello,

I have bought a VW Passat TDi (1999- V plate) in 1996 and started using bio-diesel from last July. After using the new fuel for few weeks I noticed that the car was not performing to its usual standard so, as advised by the bio-diesel retailer, I changed the fuel filter after about 500 miles. Since then the car has been running fine.

From my experience I have noticed that bio-diesel is not as efficient as your regular diesel. Using bio-diesel I get 40 miles/gallon where as regular diesel gives me 50 miles/gallon. This is a big difference; however, because of the price difference bio-diesel is still cheaper per mile. Further, it’s environmentally friendly so I am happy to be using bio-diesel.

I would be interest to find out how others are getting on with bio-diesel.

Cheers,

Mohammed

[devonutopia]

Be very very very careful! The pd130 will not run on a pure biodiesel fuel, and be reliable.... something about the fuel pump type and the general very high injection pressures (something like 20,000psi!) the PD system uses. I know someone using a 25% bio/75% diesel blend with no issues. Due to my engine being highly tuned I refuse to use any bio at all.

[jp_paul]

Its great to see that people are taking an interest in sustainable fuels. However, if i had a CI engine, i would be very tempted to mix some diesel (between 10-20%) in every tank as this thins out the biodiesel and protects your pump and injectors. Bear in mind that diesel is more expensive than bio because it is a refined product with reduced sulphur content and additional additives that protect your engine. Biodiesel contains sulphur and nitrates which cause SO2 (acid rain) and NOx (global warming, although your Cat will help with this). Running on 100% biodiesel may cost you more in a life cycle than a reasonable blend of the 2 fuels.

Please don't think that i'm ranting here. I have an MSc in Renewable Technologies so i'm a reliable source!

Jp

[devonutopia]

Running something like Millers Diesel Power Plus in with a tank of biodiesel, perhaps at double the usual dosage might help too. :)

[Teutonic_Tamer]

I've found a supplier that is about to start trading near Exeter in September.
They are at http://www.turbobits.co.uk/

Just a warning about the engine oils and other additives by Redline from the above website - as you may or may not be aware, they have no VW approval (nor any others such as API, ACEA), are only monogrades not multigrades, and therefore should not be used in any VAG cars, particularly PD TDIs.

Rgds

[Turkster]

anyone know of a bio deisel seller in northamptonshire?

[Huweth]

Well it's been a long time since I started this thread!
A few days ago, I put the first dose of biodiesel in my car. It came from turbobits, and I mixed it to about 30% bio, 70% dino.
The engine is unmistakably quieter and smoother, perhaps a little more responsive too. It's too early to tell if MPG is affected. It might have gone up, but I might be driving more carefully. Either way, thats a good thing. There is a wisp of white smoke from the exhaust on cold startup. All of these differences are the same as the guy who makes it finds on his 06 plated VW caravelle (PD), which has been using 100% bio for thousands of miles with no problems. A local ferry company uses 1000 litres of the same fuel a week, as does a local university.
I love the feeling I get putting it into the tank. I love the feeling of driving about knowing that it's being burnt in my engine. I especially love driving past petrol stations and thinking "I don't want to put any of that diesel **** in my engine anymore".
For the time being, I have enough bio stocked for a month or so. I'll be getting more in time before I run out. When the weather warms I might just go up to 50/50. I expect to change the fuel filter after a couple of tanks.
Anyone else new to using bio, or any bio veterans want to tell us about your bio use? I'd love to hear from other people, and I'll keep you all posted as things go along...

P.s. In the meantime I'll be tackling the 'water in the car' problem again! The last fix only lasted for a while, so I will be attempting to solve it once and for all, with pictures and a 'how to', so keep your eyes peeled!

[Turkster]

id love to use bio, but i canty find any in northampon or local areas, anyone ?

[jp_paul]

Has anybody got any experience of using Waste Veg Oil (WVO), either processed or unprocessed. I've suggested that we use it in our caddy pick ups at work as we have 4 canteens to supply the WVO. I know that WVO contains fatty acids and it needs to be transeterified to remove them but I was hoping to use straight WVO as a 10% mix with diesel and am concered about how long the pumps and injectors will last. Processing WVO within the constraints of the EU Waste Incineration Directive is not easy. Red tape galore!

Any comments?

Jp

[Huweth]

If you just put it straight from the fryer into your vans I would expect them to die within a few hundred miles.

There are two types of fuel you can use, both of which require processing.
1st is Biodiesel. It needs to be transesterified, glycerine removed, washed, filtered, dried and settled. This fuel is most compatible as it is thin (though not as thin as diesel)
2nd is Biofuel. It is not chemically changed, only the different parts of the oil are separated. This means there is more possibility of contaminants. A solvent MUST be added to biofuel or it is too thick to be pumped without modifications to the vehicle. It is thicker than biodiesel even after thinning. It requires less processing than biodiesel.

The thicker the oil, the more wear on parts. This is why you have to thin biofuel, and often preheat it to thin it further. Biofuel also potentially contains more water, which can and will corrode fuel pumps etc... I've seen the evidence.

You are faced with a trade off.
1, spend a lot of time and some money making biodiesel, but put less strain on your car, even without modifications.
2, spend time and money modifying your car, and some time making biofuel with less processing.

Personally, I preferred not cutting my car open and buying the biodiesel. If I had an older diesel, I'd probably modify it for biofuel and make my own.

It's got to be a decision that you have thouroughly researched the pro's and cons for. I spent 6 months and hundreds of hours looking into both options before making my decision.
If you don't know what is best for your car and needs, it WILL end in disaster!

[snapdragon]

id love to use bio, but i canty find any in northampon or local areas, anyone ?

Very good one in Herts a bit further south, they sell in containers, so you could fill car up and bring back 100 litres in drums.

http://www.expressbiofuels.co.uk/

[Pete_C]

I've been using Biofuel for a while in our SAAB with no problems but we've just started to do the same in our A4 TDI AVANT (130) ( a great car by the way ! ). To date we've only put 1 and a half tanks of biofuel into the AUDI, partially mixed with diesel as the tank was not empty at the time. Our experiences (while short lived) were that the car ran at least as well as before, the car was quieter and fuel economy was unchanged. Basically all had been going well until yesterday <sigh>.

What happened.....well.....stick with me here....

We've recently had electrical problems affecting the AUDI's central locking and on Monday, after driving 20 miles I parked up for 5 minutes and then the car would not start. On calling the AA, it was found that the central locking problem appeared to be affecting the immobiliser function.

The car had already been booked into an Audi dealership to be checked over for yesterday. Having sorted the central locking they moved onto why the car wouldn't start. Now the AA report sheet was left with the car and contained details of the problem and how to work around it ... i.e. press unlock and turn the key quick would start the car fine if the locks played up !

On finding that the immobiliser worked as expected (no surprise there, it was only working as expected under the circumstances) they found an iffy temp sensor. On changing this they fired the car up and found it was "chugging", something it certainly did not do previously !

At this point they caught a wiff on non-diesel fuel and stated that this must be the cause of the problem, we were then told that the tank should be drained and only diesel used (as Biofuel is not supported by AUDI). Once this was done they found the fuel filters to be clear but have said that they believe that the engine starting problem was due to differences in viscosity, engine differences that had not previously been encountered..

My wife (whose car it is) was then given a spiel of how biofuels were not supported by Audi and that they were (I believe in his opinion) rubbish and was left feeling somewhat ridiculed for using it.

Personally I'm going to keep on using Biofuel in the SAAB, I'm sorry to say it won't be going back into the AUDI, if only to keep my wife/AUDI happy !

Moral of the story.... ?

[snapdragon]

What age is the audi? My VW Passat manual says they recommend it, it's good for the car and good for the environment it says! Same engine too I suspect. If you find that the dealer was wrong, you should get your money back and claim for the fuel they took out.
Also...
"The companies that have approved 100% biodiesel are VW, Audi, SEAT and Skoda. They have approved all their cars built between 1996 and 2004 on 100% use of ”RME” Biodiesel (Biodiesel made from Rapeseed) providing it meets the specification DIN41606 (which was later replaced by EN14214). These companies can still provide some brand new cars warranted on 100% biodiesel but one has to request it (best to get the official letter from German Base as some UK agents aren’t fully aware). As these companies have officially approved 100% biodiesel I urge you to use your consumer power to support them in supporting the environmental movement."

[Pete_C]

Hello Snapdragon,

Many thanks for your comments. The AUDI is a 20001 model and the fuel has been produced to EN 14214. Q. Do you have a reference where AUDI confirm their support for such BioFuel. It would be v. useful if we do find that the problems are not down to the fuel (which is what I expect to see).

Many thanks

Pete

[S2AVANT]

Has anybody got any experience of using Waste Veg Oil (WVO), either processed or unprocessed. I've suggested that we use it in our caddy pick ups at work as we have 4 canteens to supply the WVO. I know that WVO contains fatty acids and it needs to be transeterified to remove them but I was hoping to use straight WVO as a 10% mix with diesel and am concered about how long the pumps and injectors will last. Processing WVO within the constraints of the EU Waste Incineration Directive is not easy. Red tape galore!

Any comments?

Jp
I know of "somone" who is using 50/50 WVO and diesel and has been doing so for 12 months.
The WVO is strained after being allowed to settle for a few days.
Quieter running and no adverse side effects.
Can't comment on the red tape :D

[Pete_C]

A particularly fine update... Many of the TDi AUDI's actually have a biofuel reference on the fuel flap :biglaugh:. Should be interesting talking to the mechanics etc later today !

Pete

[snapdragon]

All Audi TDIs produced between 1996 and 2002
can also be filled with biodiesel in accordance
with the EN 14214 standard, which became legally
binding in October 2003. This meant that Audi and
the other brands from the VW group were the only
major manufacturers of diesel cars enabling their
customers to take advantage of this ecologically
interesting option at no extra charge.
For technical reasons, however, Audi must
refrain from giving biodiesel a company endorsement
when it launches new products on the
market. Firstly, compliance with the tightened
exhaust emission regulations in accordance with
Euro IV cannot be universally guaranteed due to
the range of variation in biodiesel quality.
Secondly, trouble-free operation using biodiesel in
its pure form in conjunction with modern
particulate filter systems is technically unfeasible
at the current developmental stage.
As regards the TDI models currently in
circulation (as at February 2005), therefore, EN
14214 standard biodiesel is only generally
endorsed for the Audi A2, Audi allroad quattro and
Audi A4 Cabriolet.
It is for the reasons described above that Audi
supports the EU objective of propagating the
concept of admixtures of high-quality biodiesel to
conventional fuels and thereby bringing about a
reduction in CO2 emissions for all diesel vehicles.
Furthermore, the EU’s stipulation of binding
targets regarding the proportion of overall
consumption of biogenic fuels in Europe has
secured the demand for biofuel manufacturers’
products.

http://www.audi.co.uk/etc/medialib/cms4imp/audi2/company/environmental_protection.Par.0033.File.pdf




Hello Snapdragon,
Q. Do you have a reference where AUDI confirm their support for such BioFuel. It would be v. useful if we do find that the problems are not down to the fuel (which is what I expect to see).

Many thanks

Pete
[/SIZE][/FONT]

[Pete_C]

Perfect, many thanks Snapdragon... Looking forward to meeting the "head technician later !", particularly as it also includes en12214 fuels on the fuel flap ! Something that has even converted my wife back to the cause . Things are definitely looking up

Pete

[Huweth]

I like the way this thread is going...

Everybody knows that it's human nature to fear something you don't understand. Everybody who's seriously looked into BioDiesel knows it fine, but has it's risks (but then so does using any fuel).

Urge your head technician to only give advice on the things he actually knows about. Urge him to read up on the Biodiesel subject. Urge him to lead the pack, rather than just being a corporate sheep.

With regards my Biodiesel use, I expect to need to refuel tomorrow after a totally succesful first tank of Biodiesel (at about 30&#37;). The car is still smoother and quieter. The engine appears to be running cleaner, and is no doubt actually cleaner inside. Sub-zero temperatures have not caused me any problems at all.

For the last week I have been itching to need to refuel. I will be making a big deal of it in the school car park infront of as many students as I can gather together. I am preaching BioDiesel in the school I teach at. I've convinced the staff to run all the diesel vehicles owned by the school, and their private cars, on Biodiesel. We will be taking delivery of our first 1000 litres of fuel soon. The children are the future.

Pete, good luck, and do tell us what they say.

[S2AVANT]

I like the way this thread is going...

Everybody knows that it's human nature to fear something you don't understand. Everybody who's seriously looked into BioDiesel knows it fine, but has it's risks (but then so does using any fuel).

Urge your head technician to only give advice on the things he actually knows about. Urge him to read up on the Biodiesel subject. Urge him to lead the pack, rather than just being a corporate sheep.

With regards my Biodiesel use, I expect to need to refuel tomorrow after a totally succesful first tank of Biodiesel (at about 30%). The car is still smoother and quieter. The engine appears to be running cleaner, and is no doubt actually cleaner inside. Sub-zero temperatures have not caused me any problems at all.

For the last week I have been itching to need to refuel. I will be making a big deal of it in the school car park infront of as many students as I can gather together. I am preaching BioDiesel in the school I teach at. I've convinced the staff to run all the diesel vehicles owned by the school, and their private cars, on Biodiesel. We will be taking delivery of our first 1000 litres of fuel soon. The children are the future.

Pete, good luck, and do tell us what they say.
Why don't you recycle the cooking oil from your school kitchen?

[Huweth]

Why don't you recycle the cooking oil from your school kitchen?

I would love to. However, we only have about 60 students, so not much food to cook. Furthermore, our school is not your 'normal' school. The students cook the lunch for everyone, and are extremely health concious. We only ever use oil to fry (onion bajis) about once a term. It's simply not enough oil to be worthwhile, never more than 1 or 2 litres.

If you remember the Jamie Oliver program about healthy eating in schools, you will be shocked to hear that when he contacted us after hearing that the students did our cooking, he decided that we were far too healthy to be realistic in 'normal' schools! I think he should have used us as a role-model for other schools. Visit www.sands-school.co.uk (http://www.sands-school.co.uk) if you're curious.

There is a 1800 student school just up the road. You've given me the idea to go and get their oil to make Biodiesel.
Thanks!

[sandancer]

Huweth,

Been reading your thread, as I've been considering greener fuels on my 2003 Golf 130 PD TDI currently at 87K. Could you just confirm that you haven't made any modifications (biodiesel based) to the motor. And at what intervals did you increase your &#37; mixture? Are you more regularly changing your fuel and oil filters or leaving as normal?
Hope you've managed to gather enough oil to manufacture your own, good luck.

[Huweth]

What a coincidence you post now, I just walked in through the door after collecting 100litres of Bio!
I have made no modifications at all to my car. I started off at about 30&#37; Biodiesel, and with each tank added more Bio to the mix until I was at about 55%. On a few occasions I have been at 85% for short journeys to top up with regular diesel. I didn't stay at that ratio for long as it was still winter and I was low on Bio stock. As for the filters, I haven't had any issues yet, so no changes to filters at all. A service is due in 1500 miles, so new filters will go in then anyway. I keep a fuel filter in the boot just incase, but any problems should come in gradually.
I've recently been on 100% regular diesel for a couple of tanks as I couldn't get to my supplier (too busy). As expected, the problems that the biodiesel had cured came back, and I hope they will go again when I put the Bio in the tank tomorrow.
My supplier is doing really well, and is currently in talks with a nationwide chain to collect their used oil, which will allow him to employ a person to collect the oil, and mean he goes full time into manufacturing the stuff.
Good luck.

[clint]

Biodiesel article (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=A1YourView&xml=/motoring/2007/04/21/nosplit/mfbio21.xml)

[andysuth]

I'm on board.

I've just got half a tank of BioD from Alchemy in Stone street (off Great Howard Street) Liverpool. Nice Bloke. Showed me the production facility.

Only downside is that he's aiming at business users, so is only open monday to friday 9:30 to 15:30. And he only takes cash.

Prices are reasonable.

I wish I hadn't been told about it being quieter on engine noise, because now I can't decide if it is or just my imagination, but I thought it was a little quieter.

I'll let you all know how I get on and what my MPG is.

I just hope my engine doesn't blow up in a cloud of fish and chip shop smoke.

-AS

[easylifeauto]

hi,whats the cost per ltr at alchemy?its about half hr drive for me,to go out for a re fuel?none in cheshire area at all!dont really want a 1000ltr isotank sat on me path:D

[edc]

Hi all
Would be very careful using bio-diesel in any modern diesel as it will cause a lot of trouble at some point, save a few pounds now and spend hundreds or thousands later. Bio-diesel will get better and diesel equipment manufactures will warrant their components while using it when it is of a suitable standard, until then be very careful of some of these bio-diesel firms who seem just to be getting on the bandwagon of get rich quick, it not going to cost them.

[andysuth]

OK, I've been on the BioDiesel for a few Tanks now and have put a total of 88.11Litres into the car.

This is like a 50:50, then a 70:30mix and then a top up of the 70;30 mix.

Thing is, my MPG has just dropped off the scale (usually 52.5 mpg motorway and 46mpg city).

This last top up (of only 17.8L) is for a 144 mile trip. This represents a MPG of 35ish.

Hideous!

And at that bigger drop the m/£ drops to below 10 miles per pound (this is excluding any of Mr. Gordon Brown's "Environmental" taxes on BioDiesel - huh?).

So. I've got two possibilities, one of which is that the volume used in my calculations is incorrect, or the fuel filter needs changing again after only 1,000 miles.

I have heard people tell me fuel filters often need changing after a switch to BioDiesel, is how would I tell?

I'd appreciate a quick response as I might need to do a filter change late on Friday Night now!

Main problems are:

- Massive MPG Drop: Is this a fuel filter change issue?
- Will I need to change the Oil and Oil Filter as well (Last changed just over 1,000 miles ago, with the Fuel Filter)


Thanks

-AS

[salty]

This is like a 50:50, then a 70:30mix and then a top up of the 70;30 mix.

Thing is, my MPG has just dropped off the scale (usually 52.5 mpg motorway and 46mpg city).

This last top up (of only 17.8L) is for a 144 mile trip. This represents a MPG of 35ish.

Hideous!

And at that bigger drop the m/£ drops to below 10 miles per pound (this is excluding any of Mr. Gordon Brown's "Environmental" taxes on BioDiesel - huh?).

So. I've got two possibilities, one of which is that the volume used in my calculations is incorrect, or the fuel filter needs changing again after only 1,000 miles.

I have heard people tell me fuel filters often need changing after a switch to BioDiesel, is how would I tell?

I'd appreciate a quick response as I might need to do a filter change late on Friday Night now!

Main problems are:

- Massive MPG Drop: Is this a fuel filter change issue?
- Will I need to change the Oil and Oil Filter as well (Last changed just over 1,000 miles ago, with the Fuel Filter)


Thanks
are you using the mpg from the computer my mpg dropped like a stone untill i tried to fill up to the top of the tank i could not get in what the computer told me i had used the bio is thicker and confuses the mpg computer i mix £20 of bio fuel and top up with £10 of tesco veg oil you loose a small amout of power you would not know unless you have a heavy right foot
you also should change your fuel filter after 1000miles when going onto bio then as service book denotes
-AS[/quote]

[andysuth]

Thanks
are you using the mpg from the computer my mpg dropped like a stone untill i tried to fill up to the top of the tank i could not get in what the computer told me i had used the bio is thicker and confuses the mpg computer

No, I've not got a computer! (Well, for display anyway!)

I'm going on raw data: milometer and amount of fuel in.

-AS

[andysuth]

hi,whats the cost per ltr at alchemy?its about half hr drive for me,to go out for a re fuel?none in cheshire area at all!dont really want a 1000ltr isotank sat on me path:D

£0.84/litre until monday. Then it goes up for the new fuel duty.

Thanks Gordon. Really convincing on the old "Green Tax" routine.

Let's face it, motorists are unfairly taxed if it is a solely "environmental" tax, inefficient households produce far more avoidable CO2 emissions than ineffcient cars.

Let's call it a "Brown tax", not a "Green Tax"!

-AS

[Huweth]

I'd say a failing fuel filter wouldn't cause a drop in MPG. If it was clogging it would starve the engine of fuel, making starting difficult, and causing a power loss. You're tank would have to be unusually dirty to clog a filter after 1000 miles, I'd only expect that of a 20 year old car. There would certainly be no need to change the oil and oil filter after 1000 miles.

My advice would be to try another tank (or however you want to do it) and see if the MPG figure is still low.

Worst case scenario that would cause that sort of MPG loss is a leaking fuel system, which could of course be a broken seal eaten by Biodiesel. You're car is new enough that it uses synthetic rubbers that are not damaged by Biodiesel though.
Keep us posted.

[andysuth]

Time for mumbling and complaining amongst ourselves has past.

I think we should all do something about these fuel duty increases.

Let's stop complaining amongst ourselves and start complaining to our members of parliment.

http://www.writetothem.com/

Write your own letter ("From the Heart") as this will have more impact than an artificial copied letter.

I've included a few resources here, such as the break down of fuel duty increases:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Nl1/Newsroom/DG_066693
Clearly states tax on biodiesel goes up by 2p per litre.

SIGN A PETITION AS WELL:
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/taxfreebiodiesel/

Considering the cumulative effect of growing crops (they absorb CO2 whilst growing, making them effectively a "resevoir" of CO2) if the increase in demand for biodiesel makes more farmers grow the crop, then until that market reaches saturation (i.e. no one new converts to BioD, or every one new customer is offset by one customer leaving) they will be storing more CO2 somewhere other than the atmosphere. So if this is a "Green" tax, then surely they should be taking tax off the BioDiesel to encourage a more rapid growth of the market share?

Even if they argue diesel fumes are bad for health, surely we can use the same arguement as the nuclear industry, in the lesser of two evils (radioactive waste apparently less of an immediate danger than CO2).

I've written to my MP, have you written to yours?

Ask them to get Messrs. Brown and Darling to reverse the fuel duty increase on BioD in line with their green agendas, and it'll be seen as a popularity issue, which hopefully Brown will then take seriously....

Cheers,

-AS

[andysuth]

I'm sticking with the biodiesel.

Even though that very short milage only gave me a low 30 something MPG, the tank after (and trip to Brighton and Back) gave me much higher and the two combined have pulled my average (over the whole life of car) MPG up.

So it does seem ok.

I did change my fuel filter yesterday anyway, and it worked one hell of a lot better than the last fuel filter change.

Good to see everyone's responded to me suggesting a few letters (emails) to MPs about tax on BioD.

Do you lot really believe in it or not?

-AS

[Smalls]

This is a great thread. I'm thinking of getting Biodiesel for my VW Sharan tdi 1997.

I phoned VW customer care line and they told me that BioDiesel is reccomended for my model, as long as its the one that meets the 'EN' standard.

Being in Leeds, there is one company that sells Biodiesel at about 94p per litre, but it doesnt meet the 'EN' standard.

The nearest one to me is in Halifax (Sunbridge Garage) though the price from the pump is still quite high.

Anyone know anywhere else to get it, at a cheaper price? Otherwise I'll settle for Halifax, on a 50 - 50 tank to start with, as most people seem to recommend.

[andysuth]

94p?

OUCH! I'm currently paying 86.5p per litre (which is a bit too high for my liking, so I'm switching to regular for a few tanks in protest).

I wrote to my MP complaining about fuel tax on BioD, they have not given a satisfactory answer, but I would be very cautious at that price, as it's not much of a differential per litre on normal diesel.

You'll have to change fuel filter after 1,000miles. That's at least another £18.00 if you know where to buy and install it yourself.

One thing to be cautious about is the BioDiesel if it doesn't meet the ISO standard might not have as higher calorific value as regular diesel (less energy per unit volume), and if they are charging you that much more for it, it might work out more expensive per mile to use than regular diesel.

"I can't see why the government is so schitzo with it's 'green' policies!" it's almost like they pick and choose which things to randomly tax higher and then give approval for more airports etc.!

-AS

[james_tiger_woo]

I remain unconvinced that Bio fuels are the way forward - ultimately more land is razed to the ground to grow these crops - this land is usually in the rainforests as bio fuels are seen as a cash crop in as much the same way that tobacco was may years ago.

By growing more of these crops, ultimately we're taking away more rainforests and taking away land that could/should be used for food and/or trees (that will ultimately help the planet)

I'm no treehugger and I'm certainly no oil supporter, but a more environmental solution needs to be found - this solution, however, is not the self-righteous and pointless Prius

Incidentally, in all the VAG group diesels I've had (6 to date), they all say to not use bio diesels....

(Sorry for that, y'all :))

[andysuth]

Fair enough, but the supplier of my BioDiesel uses QC control reject oil from a major supermarket chain as the major part.

This oil would otherwise "Go to waste", and has not been especially grown or caused any direct deforestation.

As to loss of Arable land, we're all told to cut down on fried food and eat less anyway!

-AS

[Smalls]

Done it!

I've just filled my '97 VW Sharan with a blend of 50:50 (bio:non-bio).

It's running fine. Noticed a slight change in the cold start up in the morning: not as instant, and a bit of a smoke blow coming from the exhaust but only on start-up. It's been running on normal diesel for 10 years, so I suppose there's a lot of cleaning out to do. Like giving up smoking, I guess.

Is this normal?

Has anyone used any of these 'chemical additives' to bio diesel for use during colder months? e.g. anti gelling chemical 'coldflow 350'?

The biodiesel I bought was a 30 min drive away, EN 14214 standard 95% mix at 92p per litre.

How does this compare to others?

Thanks

[Huweth]

Price seems pretty fair Smalls. Yes, there will be some cleaning out that will happen. It all depends on how many miles your car has done, and the quality of diesel that has been put in over the years. I just changed the fuel filter on my 2001 Passat at 68k miles. It had done 18k miles since the last service, about half of which was with bio at varying blends up to 100&#37;. The filter was pretty black, and I noticed better response and power with the new filter. Leave it a few thousand miles on bio, then change the filters and oil. That cold startup time/smoke is exactly what I experience. I've never used any of the additives, just blend up with regular diesel in winter as it contains anti-gelling additives anyway...
Best of luck!

[acr]

anyone know of a bio deisel seller in northamptonshire?

I'm setting up a Bio Diesel supply company in the Northamptonshire area. Contact me if you haven't found a supply yet.

[Smalls]

For longer journeys, I'm thinking of just filling up a couple of extra 20l Jerry cans. Does anyone else do this?

Saves trouble of finding other suppliers en route for when I'm touring.

I have noticed that a few suppliers sell Bio Diesel without the 'EN' stamp because they say its a waste of time. Any thoughts on this?

And Huweth - have you always had the cold start up effect, or is that just at the 'dirty clear-out' beginning?

Thanks

[acr]

I have noticed that a few suppliers sell Bio Diesel without the 'EN' stamp because they say its a waste of time. Any thoughts on this?

EN is a Safe gaurd if something goes t*ts-up I would not offer anything else.
Thanks

[danoby]

If your supplier is using used oil to make the bio then achieving EN 14214 will be problematic as their oil supplies constantly change. They would officially have to have every batch tested and certified.

I prefer to use used bio as some bio made from virgin oil has high embodied energy and other concerning ethical issues like habitat loss and increased food prices because of competing land use.

My owner's manual has a page designated to bio-diesel and says it is a compatible fuel. I have been running my 1999 A4 Avant on 100% since March 07 and have now done over 10 thousand miles. I currently have an average MPG of 60.3, but I do drive carefully. The car runs well but I am concerned about the long term effects of running on bio as no one really knows yet.

It is a bit sluggish starting on a cold morning (zero or just below) and I am looking into various ad-mixes, some suggest a litre of petrol, any suggestions?

[andysuth]

I currently have an average MPG of 60.3, but I do drive carefully.

Love to know how you got it to 60.3MPG.

What was it on PetroDiesel?

-AS

[danoby]

well it is easy really, just drive like grandad, dont go over 60mph and dont go over 2000RPM, and i am running on 100% biodiesel.

I live in the countryside so it does go down when i visit london maybe to about 54MPG

[acr]

Just trying to get my 5 count so I can reply to private messages

[Smalls]

well it is easy really, just drive like grandad, dont go over 60mph and dont go over 2000RPM, and i am running on 100% biodiesel.

I live in the countryside so it does go down when i visit london maybe to about 54MPG
So the bio you use is not EN14214?

If so, this is encouraging...I would like to know about anyone using 'non-standardised' bio, as for me the jump from EN14214 to the unlabelled stuff means I can get it much more locally - a local company sells it and runs its fleet on it, with apparently no problems. It's called "Leeds Bio Fuels Ltd" if anyone knows about it?

Also just found this locater:
http://www.thebiodieselcook.com/
;)

[danoby]

[I][I][I][QUOTE=Smalls;101221]So the bio you use is not EN14214?

If so, this is encouraging...I would like to know about anyone using 'non-standardised' bio, as for me the jump from EN14214 to the unlabelled stuff means I can get it much more locally

I have always bought bio-diesel from used oil that has been made to EN14214 standards but is not actually certified due to the altering feedstock problem.

You have to be careful if buying in cans to make sure they are clean, keep re-using your own if you can. Every batch of bio I get I shake up the cans and put a little in a jar and leave it to see if there is any banding of different weights of oil. I have in the past bought bio-diesel that is contaminated with palm oil that will settle out as a band at the bottom of the jar after a while in cold conditions. Apparently this only causes problems during the colder months as it is not dissolved into the rest of the fuel and will clog up the fuel filter causing reduced performance and presumably pump strain. As winter approaches and temperatures drop some fuel can be seen to wax, small globules of oil either in suspension or sitting at the bottom, much like you get if you keep good olive oil in very cold conditions. I am trying to find out more about this waxing and how it affects the pump, filter and injectors, any help would be appreciated.

[Smalls]

Hi thanks for that Danoby.

I just heard from a supplier in Sheffield who said the same thing - his stock is always tested for
PH
Viscosity
soap test
Esther test
specific gravity

but because it comes from different source feedstock (waste oil) they would have to have it tested for the EN mark for every batch (too expensive).

So I suppose the conclusion is to be more environmentally friendly (i.e. get biodiesel from waste oil) probably means getting fuel that isn't EN14214, and make sure its tested and processed in the right way - either by the supplier (element of trust comes in) or by yourself (or both!). Also I guess if it comes straight from a pump then you don't need to check for any dirty containers/cans.

Thanks for that.

[Stu1210]

Guys...

I have a MK4 Golf GT TDI on an 02 plate... Just done 90k

Can anyone confirm that it's ok to use Bio-Diesel in it?.. If so in what ratio?

Also my dad is running his VW caddy (96 plate) on 5:1 mix of Vegetable Oil (lidl Corn Oil) to standard Diesel...

Would this be un acceptable for my car!?... I really hate rip off britain and it's fuel taxes

Thanks

Stu

[bendeus]

Hi everyone. Just a quick post to see if anyone has any information about later model Passat TDI 130s and biodiesel.

I recently bought a '54 Passat thinking I'd be able to run it on 100%. After doing some research I'm thinking that maybe I've made a major mistake.

The irony is that I've just been responsible for setting up only the second community-owned biodiesel pump in Wales, so it's kind of important to me that I'm able to use the stuff.

The information I've got from the internet seems pretty varied and occasionally misleading, and I haven't actually been able to find anything that's specific to Passats made in '04. I'm told that VWs made up to 2004 (which theoretically includes mine) are ok for bio-d. But then I read that that later PDs don't like it. There's more information on the American sites, but it seems that PD was introduced later there, and therefore an '04 VW engine in the US may not necessarily have a PD engine.

Anyways, I'm bloody confused. If I have to I'll sell my current car and buy an older one that will run on bio-d I will, but having only bought the thing about three weeks ago I'm pretty fed up at the thought.

Any advice would be very much appreciated.

Cheers

Ben

[Smalls]

Hi Bendeus,

I found alot out about my VW Sharan (1997) from varying websites but in the end I wanted confirmation directly from the horses mouth - VW themselves.

They asked me the make/model etc and even checked the engine chassis number, and then confirmed with me that I could run 100% BioDiesel provided it was the EN14214 stuff.

So I've been using an 80/20 mix ever since, no probs apart from the smell makes me hungry.

Good luck, hope that's useful.

[andysuth]

Hi Bendeus,

I found alot out about my VW Sharan (1997) from varying websites but in the end I wanted confirmation directly from the horses mouth - VW themselves.

They asked me the make/model etc and even checked the engine chassis number, and then confirmed with me that I could run 100% BioDiesel provided it was the EN14214 stuff.

So I've been using an 80/20 mix ever since, no probs apart from the smell makes me hungry.

Good luck, hope that's useful.

more likely a 76:24 mix as most places that sell petro diesel already sell 95:5 (i.e. 5% bioD).

I've been off the veggies stuff for a while, but intend to go back to a 50:50 blend (or is that a 47.5:52.5 blend ;P) in march, after cold spell has gone.

I don't know why, but my MPG just went all over the place, I had one of my highest runs at 54mpg, then I had two really low runs. I think I'll see if it was just the cold.


================================
FotE rep was saying on TV last week that she thought BioDiesel was "bad for the environment" as tropical rainforests were being cut down to produce it. She could also have said wind turbines and solar farms are "bad for the environment" as these too could be built on tropical rainforest land, should the owners of the land desire to do so.......
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-AS