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macker6464
03-10-2007, 12:09 AM
Hi

I have just got my hands on a VW Passat Estate Sport TDI 140PS and am so far very very happy apart from a few tiny things…

One thing that is bugging me is a juddering / vibrating / pulsing clutch pedal. It starts after an inch or so of travel before the clutch has actually done anything. It peeks just before the clutch kicks into action and then goes when the clutch is pressed further (i.e. when you re changing gear).

It might seem too obvious to say the pedal should not be pressed when you are not changing gear but I find that:

I do sit a bit on the clutch in traffic (it is quite high) and
when I am changing gear, especially from speed changing down through the box, I do get the clutch into this partially depressed position for enough time for it to be very annoying.
Either way I feel the vibration severely through the sole of my shoes (have tried different shoes!) and run the risk of my foot going numb unless I go round the problem by gliding in neutral where possible and making quicker gear changes (which is my current workaround).

It feels like a big dog wagging its tail on the base of your foot with a thud thud thud around 3 or 4 times a second at tickover. The frequency goes up with the speed but not so much that it is not uncomfortable.

I asked the service person to have a look and their first impression was that there was nothing wrong. They didn’t seem that sure though and they said they would compare it to some others. I left saying try a few others, have a chat with your colleagues and I will call you.

Anyone else had a similar issue? I am sure a nice motor like this can’t have such an annoying inbuilt wagging dog’s tail built into to the clutch pedal operation such that my feet suffer torture and go white on a cold day!

I have never come across a worse clutch than my old 306 Peugeot but that was just stiff and always smooth so this is a first for me especially on such a new motor (12K / 6 months).


:beerchug:
Macker6464

bora(ing) nick
03-10-2007, 09:40 AM
Hello and welcome to the forum....

Its a standard charachteristic of the hydraulic clutches accross the VAG range. Mines the same.

I think i read somewhere that if it gets exceptionally bad, it could indicate that the dual mass flywheel is on it's way out... ££££

Nick

macker6464
03-10-2007, 09:55 AM
Cheers for that Nick.

Funny thing is it was really annoying yesterday but this morning on the way to work I didn't notice it until I started wondering whether anyone would have replied to my forum question - then I obviously pressed the clutch a bit to feel it judder.

Could be as simple as I am being a bit tentatative with the new beast and lingering on the clutch more than normal...but then again... it might be a juddering dog wagging tail foot torture issue and only time will tell!

Cheers again
Macker6464

Quatrelle
03-10-2007, 07:19 PM
Macker - is your Passat new (I note you call it 'the new beast') or secondhand (new to you), and if so, what is the mileage?

macker6464
03-10-2007, 11:11 PM
Hi Quatrelle

It is 6 months old (March 2007) and it has done 12,000 miles.

On the way home from work I was thinking "is it that bad"?

My friend has a similar Audi estate and I asked him to try it out on his Audi and he said he felt some juddering too.

Strange one. I have not done many miles at all so will have to monitor the situation.

Macker6464:beerchug:

chrisvw
04-10-2007, 11:09 PM
Mine does it too. This being my first diesel, I presumed it was a diesel 'thing' and just the vibration transmitted through from the engine. Although I wouldn't have said it was so bad that it was uncomfortable.

macker6464
07-10-2007, 07:25 PM
I managed to try my father-in-laws Passat diesel manual S estate at the weekend and I found it identical to mine.

So I assume that it is a standard "aspect" that there is some feedback through the clutch pedal to your foot.

Not brilliant but not too painful and I tend to agree with Chris along the lines that it is a little annoying but liveable.

Cheers to all that tried theirs (incuding those that didn't get chance to comment!).
:beerchug:
Macker6464

gazza007
08-10-2007, 08:17 AM
I had some aspects of this on my Alhambra 115 TDI. Got used to it though.
Then at 77K pedal sunk & new Master cylinder, 15 months later pedal sunk again, slave cylinder the 2nd one was 2 weeks before I was due to get the Passat!!!!! Arrrgghhh
DSG has now removed this feeling.... Fabulous

Quatrelle
08-10-2007, 11:42 AM
Spent some time in mine yesterday, and it wasn't till I read gazza007's post this morning that I remembered this thread and realised that, as usual, I hadn't noticed anything coming up through the clutch pedal.

Our old Laguna diesel has a cable-operated clutch, which may transmit more 'vibration' back to the pedal, so perhaps my left leg has got used to it!

kcort
13-11-2007, 04:11 AM
I came across this in my manual ( a Bentley VW manual). I'll simply write it out verbatim from the manual. "The 200 gram balance weight on cars with 1.9 liter Diesel engine (up to August 1993) is discontinued. Beginning August, 1993, a balance weight will be attached to clutch release lever in cases where excessive noise and vibration are transferred to clutch pedal. The new balance weight can be installed on current vehicles where necessary to address complaints about clutch pedal noise and vibration. Tightening torque: 25 Nm (18 ft-lb)"

Hope this helps.

macker6464
13-11-2007, 09:02 AM
Cheers Kcort

I will bear that in mind if it gets worse or when I go for my first service.

I am sort of use to it now and if I feel the vibration I try to blame myself for "sitting" on the clutch.

Only problem is I seem to be driving the car more agressively rather than slipping the clutch a bit and driving like a Sunday driver.

Cheers again

macker6464

imc
19-11-2007, 02:07 PM
Hi

I've noticed what seems similar on my own 2.0 TDI Sport Passat. Just as I bring the clutch up there is some juddering as if the clutch is slipping. It seems more prevalent on cold mornings or doing hill starts, once the car warms up it is not noticable. I was thinking of taking it in to get it looked at. Are you planning on doing anything about yours ?

Regards

imc

frankj71
17-01-2008, 10:30 AM
hi guys, Im wondering whether anyone has done anything about this problem or is it just a feature of VW diesels.

I have just bought a VW Touareg 2.5 TDI (2004 model - low mileage) and I am experiencing the same problem. The Car drives well - no problems changing up or down gears but everytime I put my foot on the clutch pedal i get this buzzing vibration through my foot.

At first its not that noticeable but after a while it starts to really irritate (slight numbness in foot - and vibrating sensation continues even after I have finished driving)

I've never owned a VW or a diesel before so I don't know what the normal experience is.

Help?
frank

spen
14-11-2008, 09:37 PM
Hi Macker

Ive just joined the forum purely to find out about this exact issue.

When taking up play in the clutch pedal the vibration I feel is quite bad.

I have taken the vehicle back three times. On the second occasion they say they have replaced the flywheel since i mentioned it could be that after reading reports about defective dual mas flywheels. If they did swop it it didnt make much difference. The technicians say it is a feature of that setup. I tried two other 08 plates which had some feeling but not as bad as mine. (08's 2k miles mine 21k 57 plate)

I had explained my displeasure with the so called quality vehicle. I got the manager to drive the car. He said he could feel what i as experiencing but didnt drive like that. He always changes gear fast and puts his foot back on footrest. I cant see many doing that in crawling traffic. I certainly dont feel i should change my driving style to suit the car. My 406 185k peugeot drove superb. In fact no other car i have ever driven has felt so bad. By the time i get to work some mornings My foot it quite tingly numb.

I wanted to know what the manager was going to do about it. He said he was going to send report to vw since they would not address it as a design issue if no conplaints logged. Still awaitng the feedback promised.

Today i took the car to an independent vw garage they said not all have this issue and that i should draft a letter to vw hq. Please let me know any other xperiences.

I will have to get shut of an otherwise great car. What a shame vw cannot get this right. I would be prepared for them o get a fix in place if they say yes ok its bad design we're working on a retro kit to correct those in warranty. come on vw i'm gonna go mazda 6 jap soon...:(

Alan02
17-11-2008, 07:16 PM
Loads of comments to read,but it can be the clutch also!ive done loads on VW warranty,although the 2 mass flywheels on the comm.veh.side of the brand may as well have been made out of chocolate!!Was like a mini production line of gearboxes on the floor!But yes,both can cause a problem,as does a faulty release bearing.

macker6464
18-11-2008, 12:34 AM
Hi Spen

Sounds like yours might be a bad one. I was originally given the cold shoulder by the dealer but have probably changed my driving style to avoid the clutch judder as I rarely notice it now. When I stop to think about it, it still judders when pressed slightly which is how I traditionally drive (probably my old motorbike London courier style coming out!) but I am now shifting a bit quicker now which gets round the problem.

Keep us all posted on your next steps.

Macker6464

spen
19-11-2008, 10:30 PM
I have received the so called VW response to the dealer submitting a report. It reads:-

As per conversation please find enclosed report from VW

The slave cylinder on these vehicles has the release bearing built in to it so if the pedal is slightly pressed this will cause
Contact with the clutch pressure spring, when this is not loaded it may run slightly out of true, this will cause a vibration
Through the pedal. As soon as full pressure is put on the pressure spring then becomes true and the vibration will stop
The clutch pedal should not be ridden under any circumstances.

Thanks and Regards

xxxxxxxxxx
Aftersales Manager

Smith Knight Fay Volkswagen
Morris Street
Mill Street Industrial Estate
Bolton
BL2 2BL


I dont know how to change gear without riding the clutch.

Dont know what to believe here although I did have a test drive in another 08 plate with 2k miles today which did have a vibration but probably only 25% of that of mine.
Sounds like some better than other maybe they get wosre over time.
I will be writing a letter to VW to express my disappointment & request what is being done to resolve the design flaw. Interestingly in the nice glossy brochure I was given today for Engine it reads "Every journey is a special experience in the passat estate. All engines designed to make driving a real pleasure" ermmmmmm. mi thinks not unless you like a tingly foot.

Ill keep you posted.... drove my wifes mk4 golf today. beautiful clutch.

cheers

spen

colonel
20-11-2008, 07:28 AM
Hi all

Just got back from main dealer after taking in my passat 1.9pd 600 miles on clock. The vibration through the clutch pedal is so bad as to numb my foot that only makes further accurate clutch control impossible. the main dealer said all vws have this problem. i replied that having lots of problems does not mean there is no problem.
I am going to pursue this further especially as i have had a host of problems worst of which was when the courtesy light switched off the electric parking brake!.
I drive high mileages and cant cope with this tiring fault. I have a feeling i will be demanding a refund.

spen
20-11-2008, 11:26 PM
Col

Thanks for your message. I thought at first it was me being too critical. However I have now drawn up a letter and will be posting soon. I think your description is excellent ' makes further accurate clutch control impossible' since I am tending to try and adjust my style of driving to suit by dropping the clutch quick which I shouldnt have to do. I will let you know the outcome. I' m even wondering if this is affecting my foots health since its aching now as I type 3 hours after driving. It may even be the equivalent of 'white finger' maybe a bit OTT but I also cannot keep this vehicle I may push to swop for a DSG version of similar age spec etc. Fortunately I dont have remote interior lights. Good luck
:beerchug:

Quatrelle
21-11-2008, 11:36 AM
I know I've said this before on this thread, but I really can't say that I've noticed anything like you guys are experiencing, so it can't be a case of 'they all do that, sir'.

Mine is of course lhd, so perhaps that makes a difference somehow.

Mav2006
24-11-2008, 09:58 PM
Bora - when you say common across VAG, does it only apply to cars with electronic handbrake? I had a new Passat and the clutch was terrible, have now bought new GTI and it's fab. Also have a 55 Golf with no clutch problems

BROOKLINE
26-11-2008, 11:46 PM
Just thought I would add my comments.. we have 4 new shape passats.. they all do it.. we have had to replace the clutch and dual mass flywheel on 3 of them so far..only 1 under warranty! as the other two over 2years old and 150K..

colonel
28-11-2008, 12:51 AM
Hi all, finally got through to vw customer service (!) they asked me to take the car to another vw dealer for a second opinion. i duly did so and the second dealer confirmed that this was a known fault. i was invited to test drive two other passats and was amazed to find that their clutch vibration fault was even worse than on my car. very interesting but it doesn't help me none. i describe the problem as clutch vibration not as judder. the vibration is such that a numbness is induced and is therefore a serious safety issue.

i have sent off a letter to vw challenging the safe construction of the car due to this known and common fault. i should not have to drive agressively just to compensate for poor and unsafe design.

i will keep you posted.

ricky_s
29-11-2008, 02:02 PM
I've had an Audi A6 2.0 TDI manual from new in 2005. Mine developed the judder after about six months, Audi replaced the flywheel but since then have told me it is not a problem.

Like others on here I have learnt to live with the problem, which seems worse when cold or damp for some reason.

Getting a new car on Monday with the DSG box, so not going to be an issue again for me.

martin1810
07-12-2008, 12:54 PM
My 55 passat estate has done 107,000 miles and the clutch still vibrates through your foot. My wife won't drive it because of this. It spoils the whole car.

spen
02-01-2009, 12:43 PM
Hi all

Just a quick update on my vibrating clutch issue. I had a telephone call back responding to my letter explaining my issues. VW have tried to fob me off saying that it is not a fault but just how all the passats are. They said they do not recognise anyone has ever complained of the issue. Someones telling fibs... I am awaiting a call from the customer service person's manager since i was not happy with their response. They want me to go back to the franchaise dealer since I 'havea contract with them' apparently. Very poor from VW not what I expect. I will keep you posted. In the meantime please let them know if you have issues otherwise they will never do anything about them. The address is
Volkswagen Passenger Cars
Selectapost 12
Sheffield
S97 3ZU

Spen:zx11:

fthom3
11-01-2009, 08:13 PM
known problem with the new diesels. clutch upgrade is the solution but not as easy as it sounds

spen
16-01-2009, 01:30 PM
Hi

Do you have any specific details of what is required to resolve the problem?

I have been asked to take it in again on monday to be checked by another technician before I insist on exchanging it for an Auto.

I can then make the suggestion. Much appreciated.
:beerchug:

dazzer07
19-01-2009, 05:54 PM
hi i have a passat estate 1.9tdi s 105 bhp when i set off from 1st to second when the engine is warm the gears grind into second my passat is a 56 reg 36000 miles can anyone help:1zhelp:

Quatrelle
19-01-2009, 07:45 PM
dazzer, this is nothing to do with clutch judder.

Do a search in this forum for problems with first/second gears as this seems to be a common problem with the 1.9.

spen
08-03-2009, 10:45 PM
Just to complete my story.

I have exchanged my vibrating clutch passat for a slightly newer DSG version.
It took alot of negotiating to get a fairish deal. Basically the dealer wanted 3.5k and my car for a slightly newer version with DSG. In the end I paid 1800 to upgrade. I got a car which is much more pleasurable to drive, 10k less miles, 7 mths newer but a little tatty on the interior compared to my previous car. Hopefully the DSG will prove to be reliable. On having the car a week I have noticed slightly worse MPG, approx 10% less. My foot is starting to get some feeling back which at present is more important.

My main fustration with this issue is that VW would not accept the cars have an issue.

Cheers for now

Spen