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hanny73
26-10-2014, 10:21 PM
Hi all - I've just bought a 2.0 TFSI A4 Avant, I'm really pleased with the car however I have the following issue-

I've noticed that it's using a large amount of oil - I put one litre in a couple of weeks ago and then the oil light came on again the other day. I decided to make a note of the mileage, I filled up the oil to maximum when the mileage was 49872. I checked the oil level again after 140 miles and it had already used over a quarter of the oil.

I've done a further 100 miles and checked once again, the oil gauge is now showing about 35%. Would anyone know why the car is burning so much oil??

utensil999
26-10-2014, 11:17 PM
Common fault, Google is your friend...hope you bought it from a dealer.

Guest 2
26-10-2014, 11:27 PM
As above, fingers crossed you did.


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hanny73
26-10-2014, 11:33 PM
I bought from an independent dealer.......

What's the cause of the issue?

Stonner
27-10-2014, 12:54 PM
Failed piston rings are the cause of the oil loss, but the pistons get knackered as well over time. Expensive :(

Dpsmith060
30-10-2014, 09:00 PM
I have bought a 2010 A5 with 50k on the clock and it is using 1 litre of oil to 200miles! I am at the start of the process with my local Audi dealer to sort out "their" problem. I am aware that many others have had same problem. Doing all the checks, crank casing sensors and breather valves etc but need to build a case to argue that the fault is a major flaw in the design of the car so I can argue that audi should not only provide the parts but rebuild my engine. I believe the piston rings are the problem but an engine with only 50k on the clock should not need rebuilding. If anyone has had to rebuild I would be interested in hearing from you. Please email dpsmith060@aol.com. Thanks in advance.

hanny73
31-10-2014, 11:24 AM
I've my car booked in for the oil consumption to be looked at next week. I've taken pictures of the oil level together with the mileage of the car at each stage - at this point is there anything I should be aware of to raise when I go?

Dpsmith060
31-10-2014, 02:18 PM
I've my car booked in for the oil consumption to be looked at next week. I've taken pictures of the oil level together with the mileage of the car at each stage - at this point is there anything I should be aware of to raise when I go?


How long have you had the car? How often are you "topping" up and after how many miles.

hanny73
31-10-2014, 07:23 PM
How long have you had the car? How often are you "topping" up and after how many miles.

I've had the car a month and I'm on my third litre of oil having just over 1,200 miles.....definitely not normal!

Paul Nisbet
03-11-2014, 09:08 AM
I had the same issue, Audi did fix it FOC but it basically took ages and was a bit of a pain. I found online that In most cases if the car has a full Audi history Audi would either sort it out or contribute significantly. It's done a case by case basis, I would consider taking it back to the garage you got it from tbh. I was quoted 5k initially by Audi, they paid 100% parts, 70% labour and the Indy garage picked up the rest.

Crasher
03-11-2014, 11:56 AM
Try Millers de-glaze oil, I have used it a couple of times now on these engines when they are burning oil and it massively improved the oil consumption. After using the oil, only run it on a basic mineral oil for the next 10K miles, not a synthetic of any type. Opie oils (forum sponsor) sells the Millers oil and they have a Fuchs mineral oil which is perfect.

hanny73
06-11-2014, 07:51 PM
OK - Oil consumption test begins today, I've got to take it back after 630 miles or as soon as the light comes on....I have a feeling it will be well before 630 miles!

big_bird
10-11-2014, 01:41 PM
I was going through 1lt per 420 miles, got rebuild done foc by Audi after a few conversation (and pre-paying my next service which made me "and loyal customer), £4.2k repair bill wrote off.... Got the car back and broke down after 800 miles with what's been diagnosed as a faulty speed sensor. Should be getting the car back today but I'm beginning to lose confidence in it. Oh, and lots of info on another thread about this on here (which I'm just about to post on) BB.

hanny73
10-11-2014, 10:29 PM
I was going through 1lt per 420 miles, got rebuild done foc by Audi after a few conversation (and pre-paying my next service which made me "and loyal customer), £4.2k repair bill wrote off.... Got the car back and broke down after 800 miles with what's been diagnosed as a faulty speed sensor. Should be getting the car back today but I'm beginning to lose confidence in it. Oh, and lots of info on another thread about this on here (which I'm just about to post on) BB.

Thanks for the reply. I've done nearly 300 miles since in was with Audi last week and I think it has probably used 60% of the 1.1 litres they put in. Which dealer did you take your car to?

big_bird
11-11-2014, 01:03 AM
Mine was done in Edinburgh bud.

Crazyfool
11-11-2014, 08:50 PM
You'll find loads of info on Audi-sport.net. I had my car repaired, after hard negotiations with Audi Uk I got it down to £370. The best is free and the worst is £5,500

hanny73
13-11-2014, 10:50 PM
You'll find loads of info on Audi-sport.net. I had my car repaired, after hard negotiations with Audi Uk I got it down to £370. The best is free and the worst is £5,500

I've done 349 miles and this is now my oil level.....

26172

hanny73
14-11-2014, 09:40 PM
My oil light came on after 382 miles - booked into see the dealer on Monday for the next steps.

ramble1
19-11-2014, 10:36 PM
Hi all,

just joined this site because i was wondering how common this is. i have an A5 2.0TFSI with 60k on it. was fine up until about 58k then started using oil rapidly. its now using 1ltr in 300 miles. i'm fighting with audi because its obviously a manufacturing fault and seems to be with the rings. wondered how many people have managed to get this done FOC ?

ramble1
19-11-2014, 10:54 PM
This seems very common ! im talking to Audi about my 2009 A5 2.0TFSI which is burning 1ltr in 300 miles. dealer want £5,500 to repair. now talking to Audi. wish me luck !

big_bird
20-11-2014, 01:28 AM
It definitely helps if you have a FDSH. Mine did although done by the previous owner. I also pre booked and paid for my next service (due in 14k miles). For this I had the repair done foc. Originally quoted £4300. Speak with your local dealer and see how you get on. Audi UK were very unhelpful in my situation which is why I concentrated more on the dealer.

Crasher
20-11-2014, 12:05 PM
its obviously a manufacturing fault

It cannot be a manufacturing fault if it has only started at 58K miles. In my opinion it is the type of oil used initially when new and then the stupid length of the oil chnage intervals. They need to go back to mineral oil for running in purposes (say 5K miles) and then 10K mile oil changes with a high grade thicker synthetic. The problem is rife though, I had a TT in yesterday with the same engine (spun round obviously) and it is using a lot of oil. IF the high consumption is due to bore glazing then the engine MAY respond to using Millers glaze bust oil and then running on a mineral oil for one oil change interval. I have used this on a couple of them with this problem and it has significantly reduced the consumption. If the problem is due to ring failure then it will not help. One of the problems is modern piston rings are way too thin in an effort to reduce friction, another example of government mandated environmental damage reduction techniques backfiring and causing problems and probably worse pollution.

hanny73
20-11-2014, 07:07 PM
Audi have agreed to pay the parts and the independent garage I purchased the car from have offered to pay for the labour.

Seems to be complete hit and miss whether Audi contribute?!

Crasher
20-11-2014, 07:26 PM
If there was any justice in the world the person who sold the dealer the car should be contributing as well. I cannot get it into my head why it is legal to sell a trader a car with a hidden fault but it is not legal for the trader to sell that car on, still in ignorance of the hidden fault.

hanny73
20-11-2014, 08:58 PM
If there was any justice in the world the person who sold the dealer the car should be contributing as well. I cannot get it into my head why it is legal to sell a trader a car with a hidden fault but it is not legal for the trader to sell that car on, still in ignorance of the hidden fault.

It's quite bizarre when you put it like that.

Crasher
20-11-2014, 10:07 PM
Consumer groups and other bodies keep bleating on about dodgy used cars from dodgy garages and yet no one ever stops to think where said dodgy cars come from in the first place. A car sales company don't buy a perfectly good car and screw it up purposely so it goes wrong for the new owner. As all of us on here are aware, some faults can be extremely intermittent and well hidden such as an over-boosting turbo. If the powers that be really want to address the issue of faulty car sales then they have to address how those cars end up for sale in the first place, I think the selling owner should be as responsible as anyone else. People seem to find it acceptable to shaft a car dealer, we see it all the time on this forum, "ohh that's going to cost too much, I will get rid" but God help that same car dealer if the car they buy has as much as a faulty light bulb! It is and always will be impossible to eliminate faulty car sales by putting the onus on the dealer as there simply is not the margin in the deal to fix even a mild fault. I was talking to two old hands today where our cumulative age was around 180 and we all agreed that it is imposable to make anything more than just a living in the motor trade if you are honest, the only ones who get rich are those that do not care.

hanny73
20-11-2014, 10:14 PM
It's in an interesting topic....I think the general consensus is that there far less guilt in trading in a faulty car to a dealer than selling it privately.

Crasher
20-11-2014, 10:18 PM
Exactly, but why? The car still ends up in the hands of a private individual.

hanny73
20-11-2014, 10:21 PM
I don't really know....... maybe the thought process is that dealers can sort any problems cheaper than a private seller?!

Crazyfool
29-11-2014, 09:46 PM
I've done 349 miles and this is now my oil level.....

26172

I found mine hung around at the full mark for quite a few miles, then dropped like a rock until it bleeped at 3-400 miles


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hanny73
29-11-2014, 09:49 PM
What's the next steps with you Crazyfool?

Crazyfool
29-11-2014, 09:53 PM
What's the next steps with you Crazyfool?

The cars now fixed. My next problem is 4 new shock absorbers which is going to cost me £800!

So, it's a service, new shock absorbers, possibly new rear brake pads, repair all the dents and scratches, then sell it and buy a Merc!

What's concerning is this extract from Audi-Sport.net....

Well my financial situation dictated I tried trading in this week. A reluctant decision, as passing on a problem like this to a trader is not particularly honourable......

The results so far

* Largest Car Supermarket (Let you guess) - No longer taking petrol A4/A5/A6/Q5's
* We Buy Any Car - £5k offer for a 60k mile '10 plate A4 because of problems
* Then I went to a small trader to look at a replacement car (not an Audi) - he no longer trades in any petrol Audi A4/A5/A6/Q5's because he has 6 repair bills on his desk for this year for A4/A5/Q5's each having cost him £2k labour to repair. But he is offering any support he can provide to get dealer goodwill or raise a legal case, including getting evidence & documentation from other traders. Not sure I wish to go this route yet, we shall see.........
* From my discussions some are refusing to buy any petrol TFSI's irrespective of year of manufacture.

So the conclusion is,this is now so well known in the trade that

* Most petrol Audi models are black listed by trade buyers and becoming worth peanuts
* A very large number of traders and private owners have lost and are currently losing a lot of money
* This is now so well known it will soon start impacting new car sales unless some positive action is taken by Audi.


So back to the honourable route, get the damn thing repaired

* Audi 3k+ labour (22 hours book time at £120+/hr), £2k+ parts, much more £££££'s if block knackered. Plus messing around with consumption tests and PCV etc
* Audi Specialist £800+ labour, £2k+ parts
* Engine "Specialist" £2k+ fitted exchange engine where from what i can tell they have just done a piston ring swap.

Wow that is a lot of money whichever route you take, and what have you achieved, you have got yourself a car that is now as it should have been when it left the factory.....................................AND that nobody wants to buy!

I think Audi UK will have to act positively soon or will be forced too, as from the posts I see, the UK complaints are growing at an alarming rate, probably because (from my experience) these piston rings cannot hold out much past 60-80k miles and all these 2009-2011 cars are hitting that mileage around about...............

Now!

Edit/update: have a look at this. http://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2014/audi-oil-consumption-lawsuit.shtml


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Paul Nisbet
29-11-2014, 11:44 PM
It's total ********.

ill think long and hard about buying my next car. I had the rings done on my car and done about 3000 miles, used half the oil which I can't complain about. Considering I was getting about 350 miles per full of oil! Audi Uk are a disaster to deal with as well. Not sure what the word is on their new engines? Any better?

Crazyfool
30-11-2014, 10:25 AM
It's total ********.

ill think long and hard about buying my next car. I had the rings done on my car and done about 3000 miles, used half the oil which I can't complain about. Considering I was getting about 350 miles per full of oil! Audi Uk are a disaster to deal with as well. Not sure what the word is on their new engines? Any better?

The oil consumption will get better as the engine beds in. You need to give it at least 1000-2000 miles. I had the same problem, but now it's a lot better. I checked mine at 72797 miles and it was full. It's now on 74035 and the computer is treading just over 1/4 litre.


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Crasher
30-11-2014, 03:51 PM
The problem is only going to get worse as car manufacturers strive to reduce internal friction with thinner oil and piston rings, in particular the upcoming 1-mm, 1-mm compression and rumoured 1.75-mm oil rings, it's insane! One of the best combinations for oil control is a good old 4-mm two piece cast iron oil scraper with a 2-mm Napier profile 2nd compression ring. HOWEVER it is not impossible to make these modern designs of ring work and it only takes one simple step, running the car in using a non synthetic mineral based oil designed to promote the bedding in of rings, if they went back to that system I became accustomed to in the 70's, then there would be a massive reduction in problems. Basically, bring back the 1000 mile free first oil change. The issue standing in the way of this is the VAG marketing people want to sell a car they can say you jump in and drive for 20K miles and never have to do anything other than fill it up and the other is that the production engineers have got a bit up their own tailpipes and think they can control accuracy and honing grade quality to such an extent that running in is not required. Any pro engine builder will tell you no matter how accurately you machine and build an engine, you have to break the rings into the bores and using synthetic oil in this period is disastrous.

hanny73
30-11-2014, 06:18 PM
Mine is going in next Monday, I had assumed it would fix the issue immediately (this is largely due to my complete lack of understanding of internal combustion engine mechanics!) - how many miles would expect it to take to 'bed in'?

Crazyfool
30-11-2014, 08:18 PM
Mine is going in next Monday, I had assumed it would fix the issue immediately (this is largely due to my complete lack of understanding of internal combustion engine mechanics!) - how many miles would expect it to take to 'bed in'?

The garage says 1000 miles, but mine got better later on.


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Crasher
01-12-2014, 11:59 AM
In the VAG Technical Product Information notice about this problem they state

"Please note that the oil consumption for the first 5000Km can be above the value indicated in the service instructions"

Zenerdiode
02-12-2014, 11:31 PM
...you have to break the rings into the bores and using synthetic oil in this period is disastrous.

Why? Is synthetic just too slippery to allow the rings to take the hone?

Crasher
03-12-2014, 02:55 PM
Basically, yes that is it in one but I suppose an engineer could come up with a thesis and some long winded formulae to exactly explain it. ANY experienced engine builder anywhere would scream blue murder if synthetic oil was used in one of their newly built engines. The trouble with this is that there is a catch on certain designs of engines that use flat tappet camshafts and especially with American V8 engines there have been enormous problems with failed cams because all the oils have had their Zinc content removed, a chemical known as ZDDP. Synthetic oil goes some way to countering the removal of ZDDP but mineral oil doesn't and that is what running in oil is. So now people are having to add ZDDP additive with flat tappet cams when using running in oil. I am just having a trauma on this with a customer at the moment. I have built him a 2 litre 20v monster of an engine using Wiseco forged pistons and to me running in oil is massively important BUT (quite rightly) he is worried out his silly money hybrid dodahh wotsit turbo I have fitted and with good reason, running in oil is not good enough for it except for about 500 miles max. It is a delicate balance.