Servicing Question

[PomcaT]

Hi! :)

I bought my B8 A4 on 27th February this year with 19947 miles on the clock.

I have checked the service record, it has 2 services since it was registered in September 2010.

The first service was at 15014 miles after 2 years, the Audi Longlife Service is ticked.

The second service was a year later at 19530 miles.... all they did on that was the brake fluid.

So from the second service until I bought it, the car had done another 400 miles.

The car is at 24700 miles at the moment, It has done nearly 10K miles since the first service where they did anything, but I do not know much about service intervals etc.....

My question is should I get it serviced in September? I have no problem getting it serviced but has it really done the mileage to warrant doing it?

Also this is best car I have ever owned! :D

[Guest 2]

Get it on yearly (fixed) intervals ie 1yr/10k whichever comes first, longlife is crap and does the opposite of it's name!

[Camerashy]

Chris could I ask you about your reply please.
I have a new Audi March 2014 not a daily driver still only just done 1700 miles so possibly say 6000 per year.
my next service is due in 2 years time based on the cars service information.
are you suggesting that for example my car should be serviced every 12 months or at least the longlife oil changed.
thanks for your help and appreciate the clarification
dave

[PomcaT]

Thanks for the reply Chris. I will give Audi a call this week. :)

[rafletcher]

Chris could I ask you about your reply please.
I have a new Audi March 2014 not a daily driver still only just done 1700 miles so possibly say 6000 per year.
my next service is due in 2 years time based on the cars service information.
are you suggesting that for example my car should be serviced every 12 months or at least the longlife oil changed.
thanks for your help and appreciate the clarification
dave

If you check with Audi (website or presumably handbook) it says for <10,000 miles pa you should be on fixed service intervals or 9500 miles or 365 days, whichever is the sooner. And even if you're a higher mileage driver if you "use the performance" then again they recommend fixed intervals. IMO the variable "long life" is a service schedule for company cars - mainly motorway mileage driving at fixed speed.

[Guest 2]

I do nearly 40k a year in my A3 and still have it on fixed intervals!

[Camerashy]

Thanks for your help,will get further clarification from Audi

[xtremist]

My car has done nearly 130k miles and has been on long life servicing for at least 115k of those (during my ownership). No problems to date and it's getting more economical as time goes on.

[Herbie1213]

My previous allroad was on long life. 160000 miles over 7 years so from my opinion it is not a problem. Mixture of motorway and local. My current A7 is also on long life.


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[Guest 2]

In my opinion LL is for people who want to spend as little as possible servicing the car and generally don't care.

[theskyfox]

Just my two cents...when I got my A4, the dealer put the car on long life servicing. The first thing I did was ensure that the oil + oil filter is changed every year regardless of mileage (with everything else done at the recommendation in the handbook). I've also been advised by other audi specialists that the 3.0TDi can suffer timing chain issues if the oil isn't changed reguarly enough...but as an engineer, I'd change the oil in all cars I own annually.

-Andrew

[xtremist]

Just my two cents...when I got my A4, the dealer put the car on long life servicing. The first thing I did was ensure that the oil + oil filter is changed every year regardless of mileage (with everything else done at the recommendation in the handbook). I've also been advised by other audi specialists that the 3.0TDi can suffer timing chain issues if the oil isn't changed reguarly enough...but as an engineer, I'd change the oil in all cars I own annually.

-Andrew

With the miles I've been doing in the last couple of years, mine gets 2 services / year and that's on long life servicing (all in line with Audi service schedule). Think I'd get cheesed off if the car was in the garage every 3-4 months being serviced.

[Doctle Odd]

Compared to the cost of engine repairs/replacement (that Audi will fight like a wildcat over who's problem it is) an oil service is a small cost.

[satsu]

In my opinion LL is for people who want to spend as little as possible servicing the car and generally don't care.

Whenever this point comes up it brings out lots of emotive statements like this one. Can anybody provide any evidence to support them? I'm willing to switch if there are facts that justify doing so but otherwise I'll stick with Long Life - the manufacturer says it's ok, the dealer says it's ok (even though you'd think they'd jump at the chance to get you into the showroom more often) and the car's not put a foot wrong in 6 years / 50k miles.

[rafletcher]

Whenever this point comes up it brings out lots of emotive statements like this one. Can anybody provide any evidence to support them? I'm willing to switch if there are facts that justify doing so but otherwise I'll stick with Long Life - the manufacturer says it's ok, the dealer says it's ok (even though you'd think they'd jump at the chance to get you into the showroom more often) and the car's not put a foot wrong in 6 years / 50k miles.

For YOUR car mileage the Audi handbook recommendation is fixed interval - you average only 8333 mile a year - and Audi say <10,000 miles a year you should be servicing at 365days/9500 miles. So why aren't you following the recommendation? I'd guess its to save money. For you long life ISN'T recommended by Audi, so I would say it's NOT ok, and please don't think the dealer gives a damn. My guess is they know more goes on eventually with cars on LL servicing and low mileages, and therefore they make more money overall. On a 3.l0 V6 diesel money saving seems a false economy. And I would agree with others that as a minimum any car should have an annual service. For Xtremist doing maybe 40K a year I can see the attraction of long life - and if he running is a sedate 70mph on motorways most of the time maybe it's ok in his case. I do think 9500 is a short service interval though. But I'll do mine fixed and at 9500 to preserve my warranty.

[theskyfox]

Again, just looking at it from an engineering point of view...the crux of it really is the state of the oil just before you change it. There are a few things to bear in mind. To be effective, the oil needs to be clean and molecuarly intact.

Every time you run *any* car, you add at least two types of contamination to your oil:

-Organic - (sludge) by products of combustion including soot which causes oil thickening and thus increasing engine wear
-Inorganic - dirt, gasget materials, engine wear metal

Additionally, the molecular chains which give the oil its lubricating properties start to break down. This will also increase engine wear. Other processes such as DPF regens further contaminate the oil, so its fairly clear to see that even after a few months the oil isn't going to be as good as its initial entry at service time. Obviously other factors can be taken into account such as the efficiency of the oil filter, average length of journeys, etc, but realistically speaking the longer you leave dirty oil in the car the more wear and tear you are going to get.

I don't believe its really possible to change oil "too much", hence why some car enthusiasts will even change their oil as short as 3000 miles (I'm not suggesting anyone here needs to do that! and I'm not poking at Audi's recommended servicing regime!). The long term effects of a bad servicing regime in most cases probably won't be seen until the later stages of a cars life, by which time the original owner will probably have outed it and made it "someone elses problem".

-Andrew

[Herbie1213]

A6_Chris keep your opinions to yourself regarding people running their cars as cheap as possible and generally don't care. I found that offensive.


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[xtremist]

For Xtremist doing maybe 40K a year I can see the attraction of long life - and if he running is a sedate 70mph on motorways most of the time maybe it's ok in his case. I do think 9500 is a short service interval though. But I'll do mine fixed and at 9500 to preserve my warranty.

You have obviously been sat behind me at 71mph going up and down the M1 !

In fairness, the Exige gets an annual service and it only does between 2-3k a year :( I wouldn't dream of not servicing that annually. It is a bit more highly strung than the A4 though :drive:

[Phutters]

A6_Chris keep your opinions to yourself regarding people running their cars as cheap as possible and generally don't care. I found that offensive. If you don't agree with what Chris said, why don't you fight your corner instead of going off in a huff?

It is only an opinion after all, and yours is just as valid as his.

Come on, man - don't hide behind your mum's legs. Grow a pair.

That's a pair of testicles, not a pair of legs ;)

[Guest 2]

A6_Chris keep your opinions to yourself regarding people running their cars as cheap as possible and generally don't care. I found that offensive.


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I'm allowed my own opinion as are you, if we weren't allowed opinions then forums wouldn't exist.

If you read my reply correctly you would've seen that I was talking about Longlife servicing, not general care. If you look at my other posts you'll see my cars get what they need, and more, when they need it, I spare no expense and everything is genuine and of the highest quality, even down to tyres and screenwash and has always been since 2009 when I first got my A6.

Edit - here's a thread showing all my expenses since 2009, if you read this you'll find I didn't mean what you think I meant. Running Costs .. 2009-Present (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?142491-Running-Costs-2009-Present&highlight=running+costs+2009)

[Herbie1213]

Yes and I'm allowed my own as well. Leave Chris to answer is own post which he has. As far as your comments are concerned I won't dignify them with a response!


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[Phutters]

As far as your comments are concerned I won't dignify them with a response!Oops.

In which case I apologise.

I'm guessing that you won't be taking up the option to extend your sense of humour recovery service for a further year?

Not even if we include pan-European cover and Home Start without charge?

[Doctle Odd]

A6_Chris keep your opinions to yourself regarding people running their cars as cheap as possible and generally don't care. I found that offensive.


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That's a harsh comment.

[rickerby]

In my opinion LL is for people who want to spend as little as possible servicing the car and generally don't care.


Sort of right. It is for people who want to spend as little as possible but also care about throwing £300 a shot at Audi dealers for a 10 minute oil change. Only someone stupid enough to believe that would extend the life of their car would be stupid enough to throw that sort of money away.

[satsu]

Audi say <10,000 miles a year you should be servicing at 365days/9500 miles
Oh come on, it's not just a binary choice. Is my child going to die from botulism if I give him a drop of honey the day before his first birthday? Is he guaranteed to not catch it if I do the same one day later? No, of course not, it's a continuum of risk, albeit a rather more trivial one in this case. So can you articulate how much more risky is it to do [your assumption of] my annual mileage on long life vs fixed?


So why aren't you following the recommendation? I'd guess its to save money.
Ignorance then experience: the car was put on long life when I bought it new, and I didn't know that there was another option. It was only much later that I started seeing these kind of debates online. Based on my totally trouble-free experience I decided it wasn't worth the extra £300 / year to switch to fixed. If anything does break then that £900 will go a long way toward fixing it, although of course there will be no way to demonstrate that it was down to the servicing regime because there's no information about impact on reliability, cost of repair etc.


I would agree with others that as a minimum any car should have an annual service
Yes but why? Based on what? Fair enough, it's your view, but what makes you believe it? I am really interested in getting to the bottom of this one. I'll probably swap the current car for a new B9 whenever it finally appears (or a 330d if Audi keep dragging their heels) and I would love to hear any evidence for or against having that new car on fixed.

[Doctle Odd]

Oh come on, it's not just a binary choice. Is my child going to die from botulism if I give him a drop of honey the day before his first birthday? Is he guaranteed to not catch it if I do the same one day later? No, of course not, it's a continuum of risk, albeit a rather more trivial one in this case. So can you articulate how much more risky is it to do [your assumption of] my annual mileage on long life vs fixed?


Ignorance then experience: the car was put on long life when I bought it new, and I didn't know that there was another option. It was only much later that I started seeing these kind of debates online. Based on my totally trouble-free experience I decided it wasn't worth the extra £300 / year to switch to fixed. If anything does break then that £900 will go a long way toward fixing it, although of course there will be no way to demonstrate that it was down to the servicing regime because there's no information about impact on reliability, cost of repair etc.


Yes but why? Based on what? Fair enough, it's your view, but what makes you believe it? I am really interested in getting to the bottom of this one. I'll probably swap the current car for a new B9 whenever it finally appears (or a 330d if Audi keep dragging their heels) and I would love to hear any evidence for or against having that new car on fixed.

Re-read post #16. My 2 bobs worth is almost identical, oil does degrade over time, it picks up and suspends all kinds of crap, soot, carbon, metal etc It gets boiled every day. Put oil in your chip pan and use it every day you'll see how quickly the oil discolours, degrades and has stuff suspended in it. A chip pan is 50 quid an engine 10k+. You could even stay on LLS and get an indie to do an oil service in between. It would be a lot less than 300.00.

[satsu]

My 2 bobs worth is almost identical.

Ok, fine, another opinion. Does anybody have any facts?

[Doctle Odd]

Ok, fine, another opinion. Does anybody have any facts?

Facts? This isn't dragnet! What exactly do you mean? Audi should say actually LLS is a bad idea and it's our fault there is excessive wear on a load of our engines. The oil is similar, the engines are very similar the filters are the same. One is fixed service the other LLS. Why? LLS probably appeals to fleet managers that sell the car on before major work is needed. This is a motoring forum where the consensus among the majority of members is that engine oil should be changed annually or every 10,000 miles whatever comes first. More than a few of the members are respected and well known mechanics. What do they know? Anyway you quoted part of what I said to try and support your facile argument.

[satsu]

I have no argument and no problem with anybody else's choices. I just have a simple question that I can't answer: what benefit do I get by paying the extra money for fixed servicing? I'm ready to be convinced, but I need rational evidence rather than emotive statements.

How about some basic stats e.g. what is the average failure rate for a car on Long Life vs Fixed servicing? What is the impact on performance / economy of running the same oil for two years vs one year? Even some anecdotal evidence from the mechanics would be a start. Have they seen more problems with cars on Long Life vs Fixed? What kind of problems? At what kind of mileage did they occur? What did they cost to fix?

There is definitely no consensus here e.g. I count 5 advocating fixed and 4 favouring long life in this thread. The noticeable thing is how much more vocal the fixed faction is, and I can't help but wonder why people feel so strongly that everybody else should be on fixed and yet cannot rationally articulate why.

[rafletcher]

There is definitely no consensus here e.g. I count 5 advocating fixed and 4 favouring long life in this thread. The noticeable thing is how much more vocal the fixed faction is, and I can't help but wonder why people feel so strongly that everybody else should be on fixed and yet cannot rationally articulate why.

Perhaps because we're older? In any event your mileage is such that Audi recommend you have fixed interval servicing, but you don't. That can only be to save money. And IMO is daft, but hey, it's your car.

[satsu]

Perhaps because we're older? In any event your mileage is such that Audi recommend you have fixed interval servicing, but you don't. That can only be to save money. And IMO is daft, but hey, it's your car.

That's funny, because I think it's daft to spend an extra £300 a year on something that has no quantifiable benefit, but hey, it's your money.

You know, you might be right about the age thing. This whole debate has a definite smell of "My grandad 'ad 'is car serviced every year and it never let 'im down" to it. Maybe I should stop taking the **** out of my friend's Model S for long enough to ask how they do their servicing.

[Doctle Odd]

£300.00? Madness you can get a gallon of oil at the Sunday markets for a tenner, it's as good as engine oil that's been used for a year or so

[rafletcher]

That's funny, because I think it's daft to spend an extra £300 a year on something that has no quantifiable benefit, but hey, it's your money.



so you're happy to ignore the manufacturers recommendation?

[satsu]

so you're happy to ignore the manufacturers recommendation?

Ah, back to botulism. . . I'm not ignoring the manufacturer's recommendation, because it isn't just about mileage. According to the full set of guidance that they provide long life servicing is the appropriate choice for my car.

[Hardmonkeys]

In my opinion LL is for people who want to spend as little as possible servicing the car and generally don't care.

I beg to differ on this, my Previous car was on longlife, a VW Golf 2lt TDi, as I do 19-21k a year, I had my car serviced when the reminder came up, which was every 10-11mths..money was no object, I got the cambelt done when needed, the brake fluid done every 2 yrs as recommended, even serviced and regassed the air con!

[Brycie]

A bit harsh to accuse people with different opinions to yours of penny pinching & neglecting their car. Each to their own. I do almost 40,000 miles a year in my car, mainly motorways & major A roads. If I changed mine to fixed interval servicing, I'd be servicing it 4 times a year which I feel would be excessive & unnecessary. On occasions when I'm doing more urban driving, the car's computer shortens the servicing interval to adapt to the requirements of my particular driving style & circumstances.

My reason for sticking with LL isn't penny pinching, it's sticking with the manufacturer's recommendation. I've also had the gearbox oil changed regularly despite the manufacturer saying it's a 'sealed for life's unit, because I want to look after my motor - I wouldn't do that if I was just after saving a few quid & cutting corners.

Just my two penneth worth, but as I say, each to their own. If you decide to change to fixed interval servicing despite what your car is telling you, then kudos to you. You will get good part exchange value when you chop it in & the new owner will inherit a very well looked after car.

[rafletcher]

Ah, back to botulism. . . I'm not ignoring the manufacturer's recommendation, because it isn't just about mileage. According to the full set of guidance that they provide long life servicing is the appropriate choice for my car.

I was playing devils advocate a bit - I happen to agree that in certain situations so called long life servicing IS appropriate and I'll probably use it on my new car, but I'd be interested in seeing the full set of recommendations you mention. All I could find was what I've stated above ie < 10k = fixed, > 10k it depends on type of service.

[satsu]

I was playing devils advocate a bit
That's ironic, because I'm really not arguing that long life is better, I just want to know one way or the other. I spent the money on a 3.0TDI on the basis of the performance numbers, backed up by a test-drive experience. I use premium diesel on the basis that I see a 5-10% improvement in mpg. I'm ready to be convinced about servicing, but it needs to be based on evidence. In the absence of that then why wouldn't I go with the cheaper option?


I'd be interested in seeing the full set of recommendations you mention

If you look toward the back of the model brochure there's half a page of wafflybollocks and disclaimers for you to navigate. My interpretation is that 8500 /yr of predominantly long-distance motorway cruising is a better fit with flexible, particularly given my driving style (generally economical & mechanically sympathetic). See what you make of it.