2.0 tfsi vs 3.0 tdi - which car to keep for 10 years?

[willie1973]

Hello all,

Am planning on buying a B8 for going to work (12 miles e/w @ 60mph -- 4 days a week) and then around city a little. 2.0 tfsi or 3.0 tdi

Just turned 40 so feel I am allowed a 'non sensible' choice - not a 2 litre diesel

Other half has a B7 2.0tdi S-line which is nice inside (particulary the Valcona leather), but the noisy engine and manual gearbox leave me uninspired.

Had a B7 3.0tdi tip for a week and was great.

Interested in peoples opinions as to which I should get and would be best to run @ 7000 miles a year for the next 10 years. I'm thinking MPG will be roughly similar, but what about engine longevity and servicing cost? Are Tiptronics more reliable than DSG?

?????????????

Thanks,

Willie

[willie1973]

Sorry, didn't mention would buy 3 year old low mileage car.

[Kevin_m]

Same dilemma I had. I was going from a BMW 535d and fancied a 2.0t to go for petrol for a change. I think the 3.0tdi isn't great economy for short journeys but it loves motorways. One of the biggest deciding points for me was the spec as it's quite difficult to get all the gadgets. I don't think you would be disappointed with either but for short journeys stay away from the diesel.


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[willie1973]

Is a 12 mile journey too short for the DPF??

Think I have been reading the internet for too long iro DPF scare stories.

Will be happy if I can average 35mpg......fun always has a price.

[willie1973]

BTW

C350 cdi's are a lot cheaper than Audis. Prefer the looks on the outside. Not sure about interior quality and being stuck at the bottom of a hill in the snow.

[theskyfox]

Hi, Just my two cents...I own the 3.0TDi.

Firstly, no, 12 miles is not too short to clear the DPF so don't panic about that. As long as the journey isn't entirely start/stop and has a few miles of straight road at a decent speed you won't have any issues. Really the 3.0TDi is one of the best engines as it will regen in 6th gear (I'm yet to find one its fussy with).

The only thing I can think of to mention is the V6 has a long warmup time. At this time of year it can easily take 9-10 miles to get to full operating temperature which means most of the time you will be running cold/rich. On a long run I can get about 40MPG...shorter journeys of the length you are looking at will probably drop that to low 30's (though this will improve slightly in the summer when it takes less time to warm up). That said, even on short journeys you are going to easily beat the MPG of the 2.0TFSI...and you'll still have awesome performance from it.

Servicing is more expensive on the 3.0TDi. I believe the 2.0TFSI qualifies for fixed price servicing which is roughly £149 off the top of my head. The 3.0TDI won't give you much change out of £250 just for the oil/filter (excluding air filter, pollen filter, brake fluid, air con regas and whatever bits need doing).

Finally engine longevity...the 3.0TDi will still be going at well over 100,000 miles and has no cam belt (its chain driven) so the diesel wins hands down there.

Hope this helps a little. I bought mine in 2011, have put 30,000 miles on it since then and it still puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. The V6 is a beautiful piece of engineering.

-Andrew

[Audi.Quattro]

I was about to say my 3.0TDI warms up quickly, well it does compared to my previous CR170 anyhow.

I do agree that the town driving drags the mpg figures down quite quicklly.

[willie1973]

Thanks chaps, very helpful.

Off work this week so I did the school run today in the B7 2.0 tdi and noticed after about 3 miles the MPG was only about 35mpg (can get 50-55 on a long run), so yes I guess everything will suffer on the cold short runs.

How long does a big petrol take to warm up. A friend has just bought a 3 or 3.5 litre CLK and he gets 25-30 mpg on his short 5 mile run to the station. Should I be considering a petrol - my gut feeling is no, but an old school friend who runs a Mercedes garage says that's the way I should go. Audi website used section has three 3.2s as opposed to 49 diesels......guess that tells a story.

I'm happy with the extra servicing costs of a 3.0tdi - I have a very good Independent VW/Audi garage near me who are very reasonable.

I'm feeling confident that a 3.0 tdi is the way to go. The engines appear to be reliable, so it's just the choice of gearbox. Not liking the manual on the b7 leads me to an Auto plus I wouldn't be confident a manual would cope well with so much torque. Any opinions on the reliability and useage of Tiptronic vs S-tronic?????? Not sure what date the change was.

Having looked at the Ads, it appears there may be more choice of cars with the V6 if I get an A5 - lower mileage too perhaps. I'm assuming coupled with that engine it will drive pretty similarly to the A4???

Thanks

[markp306]

Other half has a B7 2.0tdi S-line which is nice inside (particulary the Valcona leather), but the noisy engine and manual gearbox leave me uninspired.

Had a B7 3.0tdi tip for a week and was great.



Those B7 TDI engines are not common rail so you are not 'comparing apples with apples', including the 2 litre.

With regard to your other comment, I do find it hard to get the power down in a manual on wet roads, but thought that might be something to do with its Dunlop summer tyres rather than not having an auto 'box?

[willie1973]

Point taken.

Yes, I agree. I think I should probably have a go in a more modern diesel to see what advances have been made. The noise, to be honest, is fine once inside the car and on the go.

I guess my other issue with the 2.0 tdi is the lack of any kind of giddyup until the turbo kicks in. Are common rails any better?

MarkB: Getting an A5 is entering into my thought train. Are the back seats as prohibitive as a few things I've read lead me to believe?? I'm 5'10 so front seat wouldn't be massively far back

[markp306]

Point taken.

Yes, I agree. I think I should probably have a go in a more modern diesel to see what advances have been made. The noise, to be honest, is fine once inside the car and on the go.

I guess my other issue with the 2.0 tdi is the lack of any kind of giddyup until the turbo kicks in. Are common rails any better?

MarkB: Getting an A5 is entering into my thought train. Are the back seats as prohibitive as a few things I've read lead me to believe?? I'm 5'10 so front seat wouldn't be massively far back

Well, it can get bogged down in 2nd/3rd on a rolling start until the turbo kicks in, but in gear/on the move it's fine. An auto would get around this though.

[jugghead]

I've got a 2008 A6 3.0tdi le mans, had the car just over a month. I do about the same mileage as you've mentioned, 15 miles each way, more roads though about 7miles dual carriageway. I usually get to work for 7pm, so no traffic averaging 32mpg coming back with traffic could be as low as 25mpg averaging for the last 900miles at 27.1mpg, and still increasing. The power is immense especially in sports mode and I'm coming from a 5.0 petrol Mercedes CLS which had 306bhp. Most pre-facelifted car like mine prior to 2009 does NOT have a DPF check in the boot and look for 7GN on the option list (sticker), a friend of mine has the same car and does on average on 4 miles a day for the last 2.5yrs and has never had a problem. In which i could never understand how he never had an issue with the emissions light coming on, ( I've now discovered, their isn't one) I suppose every now and then he goes on the motorway.

I originally thought all these cars came with a DPF, but only just discovered that not all 3.0tdi cars had the DPF fitted. 7GN means (DPF preparation), meaning its prepared for a dpf if neccessary. Audi did some trickery to the engine keeping the emissions down and staying within the euro 4 spec without the need of the dreadful DPF. The face lifted cars had them fitted. So you might have that issue, I don't know. ..My initial lookout was for a 3.0tdi facelifted, but there so rear and expensive. .Theres lots of 2.0tdi though.

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[willie1973]

Thanks all for your thoughts and opinions.

I'm now happy with servicing costs, fuel costs and dpf issues.

The problem is how few used V6 a4s there are and how expensive they are relative to the competition....c350s and 330d...the manuals are more realistic, but I'm really not convinced that's the way to go.

[rafletcher]

A bit of thread necromancy here, but I recently made the decision to go with 2.0TFSI for my new car, having previously (well still at the moment) driven the 3.0TDi. I commute 34 miles a day, annual mileage maybe 12,000. My view is that modern diesel technology is getting too complex as a result of emissions regulations. Aside from the V6 cam chain tensioner problem, there are problems with EGR's getting gummed up, and the dreaded DPF failure. Plus MPG in the real world is often not that much better with diesels of similar performance to petrol alternative if driven "enthusiastically", and diesel cars cost more and fuel is more expensive. And I looked at an Ultra (when I was feeling sensible) and decided a 5-part cat with Urea injection was a step too far in technology for a car I'm paying for myself (though an excellent company car choice - which is only really relevant in the UK). Anyway I'm picking up my first petrol engine car for 16 years (and the last was a Peugeot 205GTi!) on September 1st, an A4 2.0TFSI Quattro Avant

[willie1973]

Wow, that was a long time ago. I ended up going diesel. Much quicker, more relaxed and quieter. Would even go so far as to say V6 diesel sounds better than 4 pot petrol.

Afraid I also went to the dark side, got a c350. Comparable Audi was about £5k more - too much for a few days snow a year. Got 3.5 year old car, 29k on the clock, £45k new (HK sound, panoramic roof, adjustable dampers etc etc) for £16.5k. And it's bloody lovely. FYI - Economy 33-35 town, 38-40- 15 mile trip, 45 long trip. Ironically, 2 weeks after I got it, was given work vehicle, so even less annual miles.........should have got a c63!!!!

Would still go diesel again, additional torque and the smile it gives you is well worth it.

W.

[gdallas]

your journey and mileage sounds identical to mine, and i have the 3.0 tdi v6 too. its no bother and in fact, my car regens when it needs to no problem. this morning in fact, it was regening when i parked up at worked and continued for a bit when i went in. its a wicked engine highly recommended. motorway driving i get avg 48 mpg. journey to work its average is 35

[mina08]

Diesel tax will rise, short journey's are not good for them, TFSI engines in my opinion are amazing, cheaper to run and faster. 0-60 in 6secs :)

[gdallas]

Let's not split hairs. My 3L is 5.9 0_62

[markp306]

Plus MPG in the real world is often not that much better with diesels of similar performance to petrol alternative if driven "enthusiastically", and diesel cars cost more and fuel is more expensive.


I've also looked at the comparable mpg figures for both fuels and am still not sold. Surely you could still beat the tfsi unless you drove the petrol 'like a granny'?

I did consider a 1.8T 170 for my current car but believed the extra power and efficiency of the TDI would be a good bet. Obviously you have that price premium for diesel but then it's about driving choice. After all the reverse applies - you don't pay a premium for an S/RS model and then start worrying about recuperating cost through economy? It's a user choice.

Anyway interested to watch how your comparison goes when it's on your drive. I'd love to get back in quattro but cabriolet options are more limited. But 2.0T is one of them though....and I wonder if I ruled it out too quickly?

By the way, I had a couple of those Pugs too! Good times!

[Crazyfool]

....Finally engine longevity...the 3.0TDi will still be going at well over 100,000 miles and has no cam belt (its chain driven) so the diesel wins hands down there...

-Andrew

The 2.0T is chain driven.

The 2.0TDI does nothing for me performance wise bin fact I've got an A3 TDI courtesy car for the week, but I prefer my fathers A3 1.8T.

It's the 3.0TDI for me next.


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[rafletcher]

I've also looked at the comparable mpg figures for both fuels and am still not sold. Surely you could still beat the tfsi unless you drove the petrol 'like a granny'?


Anyway interested to watch how your comparison goes when it's on your drive. I'd love to get back in quattro but cabriolet options are more limited. But 2.0T is one of them though....and I wonder if I ruled it out too quickly?


Indeed I'll be interested too! A friend has a 1.8T 2wd and averages 34mpg.