Gearbox ratios

[Doctle Odd]

Does anyone know the gearbox ratios for 1.6 and 1.9 turbodiesel Audi 80's?
Thanks

[helmsy157]

Does anyone know the gearbox ratios for 1.6 and 1.9 turbodiesel Audi 80's?
ThanksHi I have the elsawin 4.0 which gives ratios for various Audi gearboxes, which one do you have or what do you want to know, arthur

[Doctle Odd]

Hi Arthur
I got a free 1Y engine and I plan to put it into a 1.6 Audi A4 or Passat. (they have throttle cables). I don't know what gearbox to get but I know there were Audi 80's with 1.9 diesels both straight and turbo and the 1.6 td. I have a box from an A4 TDi but I think the ratios would be wrong. I Intend to convert to turbodiesel in the future. This is a Bushmills and Stella in the shed winter project. Any light you can shed would be much appreciated.

[helmsy157]

Hi Arthur
I got a free 1Y engine and I plan to put it into a 1.6 Audi A4 or Passat. (they have throttle cables). I don't know what gearbox to get but I know there were Audi 80's with 1.9 diesels both straight and turbo and the 1.6 td. I have a box from an A4 TDi but I think the ratios would be wrong. I Intend to convert to turbodiesel in the future. This is a Bushmills and Stella in the shed winter project. Any light you can shed would be much appreciated. Hi there, first stamped on the top of the gearbox bell housing is the gearbox type if you pass this on I will probably tell you the ratios. I have just taken the gearbox of an early a4 diesel with the if I remember DHF gearbox. The box in the audi 80 tdi is the BAA with an overall ratio of 2.656 : 1 the dhf is almost the same and gives the speedo 1mph higher. ps the elsawin 4.0 dvd is on ebay very cheaply, might be worthj a try, all the gearboxes of this era are there and a lot more info. Come back with the gbox number and I will reply with the ratios. Arthur

[Doctle Odd]

I'll get the code off the tdi I just want to know if the older boxes had different rations. 1st and reverse would work :)

[helmsy157]

I'll get the code off the tdi I just want to know if the older boxes had different rations. 1st and reverse would work :)
There seems to be small differences is the intermediate ratios, but all you are really intertested in is the overall ratio in 5th. all the petrol mode have a higher ratio so gbox must be from a diesel and be code 012

[Doctle Odd]

Thanks Arthur my gearbox is dirty I has assigned the cleaning to boy wonder so i'll have the info later on. I don't think the 1.6 petrol box would mount to a diesel, I recall someone telling me this

[helmsy157]

Thanks Arthur my gearbox is dirty I has assigned the cleaning to boy wonder so i'll have the info later on. I don't think the 1.6 petrol box would mount to a diesel, I recall someone telling me thisRight here we go.....,.Audi were aware that the BAA gearbox fitted to all audi80 tdi were fragile, poor bearings, with the release of the a4 this was put right??? with poly bearings, so the best gearbox for you will be from an early a4 1.9tdi about 1995 to 1999. there are a number of variants with various gear ratios mid range but all have the same ratio in 5th which is what you want, or recalibrate speedo, not good. So look out for a CPC, DHL, DVS, DWE all are the same overall ratio, you may find a DHF which is slighly less overall ratio than the BAA but will also fit and you will not really notice the difference. Audi use the same casting for all these gearboxes ie 012 with odd variations in mounting but all the bolt holes for the old fixings are still there. The !.6 petrol gearbox will fit mechanically but the overall ratio is too high, petrol engines produce power at higher revs. Hope this is what you want. will not be back now till Monday

[helmsy157]

Right here we go.....,.Audi were aware that the BAA gearbox fitted to all audi80 tdi were fragile, poor bearings, with the release of the a4 this was put right??? with poly bearings, so the best gearbox for you will be from an early a4 1.9tdi about 1995 to 1999. there are a number of variants with various gear ratios mid range but all have the same ratio in 5th which is what you want, or recalibrate speedo, not good. So look out for a CPC, DHL, DVS, DWE all are the same overall ratio, you may find a DHF which is slighly less overall ratio than the BAA but will also fit and you will not really notice the difference. Audi use the same casting for all these gearboxes ie 012 with odd variations in mounting but all the bolt holes for the old fixings are still there. The !.6 petrol gearbox will fit mechanically but the overall ratio is too high, petrol engines produce power at higher revs. Hope this is what you want. will not be back now till MondayI just read this and want to make something clear, what you are looking for is an overall gear ratio when in 5th gear this will include the gearing in the differential so that speedo is correct when normal driving. Even in 4th and 3rd you will not really notice any difference. Just to put your mind at rest

[Doctle Odd]

Thank you Arthur
My thinking was that the 1Y I have is the early version 64 bhp so I was concerned about the engine not being able to make the car move. I remember a guy selling an escort years ago 1.6 ghia with I think a 1.1 engine on the 1.6 box. It was an awful car to drive. I intend to get this done then get a good AAZ and fit an AHU turbo next year
thanks again
Paul

[gupsterg]

... assigned the cleaning to boy wonder ...

OMG! you've blown your cover Doc! or should I say Batman!


http://youtu.be/1jgE-lrfZ3k

[Doctle Odd]

Needless to say it still needs to be cleaned

[scotty33]

off the top of my head, something like a 1.9 pd 130 passat pulls about 32mph/1000rpm. My 90hp AHU passat did about 28mph/1000rpm, so guess the 80 1Z would be similar? The 64hp diesel you speak of would probably struggle to crack the ton, so guess you would want about 25mph/1000rpm in top? One of the V6 petrols would be fairly close, I guess? Something like an Audi 90 20v uses 22mph/1000rpm but is on 205/50 15 tyres, go up to 205 60 and you get another 7% or 1.5mph/1000rpm. The coupe 20v and all V6 are already on 60 series tyres

[Doctle Odd]

Thanks Scotty I just want to see what will work without looking like Richard Cranium in traffic. I will add a turbodiesel engine when funds permit if I can get a 1.6 GTTD it develops 80 brake so lower road tax and relativity ok performance (i'm a 56mph driver) Maybe I phrased the question badly what I wanted to know is which box would make a 20 year old engine design drive acceptably :)

[helmsy157]

Thanks Scotty I just want to see what will work without looking like Richard Cranium in traffic. I will add a turbodiesel engine when funds permit if I can get a 1.6 GTTD it develops 80 brake so lower road tax and relativity ok performance (i'm a 56mph driver) Maybe I phrased the question badly what I wanted to know is which box would make a 20 year old engine design drive acceptably :)Would you like me to look up the ratios for the 1.6 if so what year is the engine. All seems a lot of hassle when you intend to change again later. Would recommend a 1996-1998 A4 turbo deisel complete engine and box. I just bought one from a scrappy for £50 for the lot and it just goes straight in, almost. Point I thought about check if the car gearstick is set up for one ot two levers to the gearbox this may influence your choice maybe. Also you will need to check the diameter of the box's output flanges they are 130mm to accomodate the tripod cv joint on most diesels, but early cars that had a petrol engine have a smaller diameter, Arthur

[scotty33]

I tend to agree with Helmsy, but the tdi will need the ECU and engine loom transplanting with the engine, you also need the ignition key reader and clockset to keep the immobiliser happy (or pay a specialist to defeat the immobiliser is another option), it is all do able, but would be the same work, to do a 130pd engine, for that reason I would go that route. Or consider a 'mtdi' conversion which does away with the electrics on the 90-110hp fuel pump?
There is probably a tax reason a 1.6 would be desirable. The 80hp td was also in passats approx 1992. I would avoid the 1.9td version, only 75hp as it was set up to be 'environmentally friendly' or umwelt in german. As it was known for chewing it's bottom pulley key, became nicknamed 'unwellt'.
The 80 came with 80 hp 1.6TD engines RA 88-90 and SB 89-91, not sure which markets received them? Passat/golf transverse mounted engines will need the sump, pickup pipe, flywheel and clutch off a longitudinal mount engine.

[Doctle Odd]

Thanks Scotty, I'm starting off with the 1.9 straight diesel. Thanks for the tip on the "unwell" engine I've crossed it off my list. Mtdi might be an option as wiring is one of my many weak spots. Road tax for a pre 2008 1.9 car in Ireland is 190.00 for 3 months so the smaller engine is attractive. Stuff to ponder luckily this is a winter project so no rush :)

[scotty33]

[QUOTE=Doctle Odd;838459. Road tax for a pre 2008 1.9 car in Ireland is 190.00 for 3 months so the smaller engine is attractive[/QUOTE]

That is Harsh!

[Doctle Odd]

It's crap mate. I live 10 miles from town takes me almost half an hour to get there, the roads are so bad.

[Doctle Odd]

Hi Arthur. I'm going with the box from the A4 that I have, I have all the shafts hubs etc I believe I can convert the AFN engine I have to a manual pump. Your engine/box combo was for nothing they charge 400 here for a bare engine
Would you like me to look up the ratios for the 1.6 if so what year is the engine. All seems a lot of hassle when you intend to change again later. Would recommend a 1996-1998 A4 turbo deisel complete engine and box. I just bought one from a scrappy for £50 for the lot and it just goes straight in, almost. Point I thought about check if the car gearstick is set up for one ot two levers to the gearbox this may influence your choice maybe. Also you will need to check the diameter of the box's output flanges they are 130mm to accomodate the tripod cv joint on most diesels, but early cars that had a petrol engine have a smaller diameter, Arthur

[zollaf]

you need a manual pump off something that is direct injection. nothing from vag that i know matches this criteria, all the manuals i can think of were indirect, however, a landrover discovery 200 or 300 tdi ? might work. all the fittings are probably the same and being 2.5 litres would have the capability to deliver a lot of extra fuel so you could make it go like a scalded cat.

[Doctle Odd]

Thank you Z. I have been looking on the interweb and apparently the pump off the AAZ engine can be modified with parts off the VP pump. I don't know how the VNT would work ... Loads of thought will have to go into this money wasting project before I start wasting the money :biglaugh:

[zollaf]

the vnt needs a vacuum to work it, the opposite to a wastegate turbo, so some sort of controller would be needed. adams24 keeps going on about fitting vnt's where once there was a normal trubo so maybe he can shed some light on it for you.
alternatively, jump on a ferry an collect that lush little golf gti that matey was on about scrapping :)

[Doctle Odd]

Don't suppose you have a spare AAZ pump for sale?
Would you like me to look up the ratios for the 1.6 if so what year is the engine. All seems a lot of hassle when you intend to change again later. Would recommend a 1996-1998 A4 turbo deisel complete engine and box. I just bought one from a scrappy for £50 for the lot and it just goes straight in, almost. Point I thought about check if the car gearstick is set up for one ot two levers to the gearbox this may influence your choice maybe. Also you will need to check the diameter of the box's output flanges they are 130mm to accomodate the tripod cv joint on most diesels, but early cars that had a petrol engine have a smaller diameter, Arthur

[Doctle Odd]

Probably fit a different turbo if I ever do it. I think that would end up horribly complicated with the VNT
the vnt needs a vacuum to work it, the opposite to a wastegate turbo, so some sort of controller would be needed. adams24 keeps going on about fitting vnt's where once there was a normal trubo so maybe he can shed some light on it for you.
alternatively, jump on a ferry an collect that lush little golf gti that matey was on about scrapping :)

[Doctle Odd]

How about the LT 35 pump off a 2.8? Do you think it would be possible to fit a sprocket/pulley in place of the gears?
you need a manual pump off something that is direct injection. nothing from vag that i know matches this criteria, all the manuals i can think of were indirect, however, a landrover discovery 200 or 300 tdi ? might work. all the fittings are probably the same and being 2.5 litres would have the capability to deliver a lot of extra fuel so you could make it go like a scalded cat.

[Doctle Odd]

Scotty do you know if the AAZ engine (that you don't recommend) is the same as the commercial ABL donkey? Mercy bucket :)
I tend to agree with Helmsy, but the tdi will need the ECU and engine loom transplanting with the engine, you also need the ignition key reader and clockset to keep the immobiliser happy (or pay a specialist to defeat the immobiliser is another option), it is all do able, but would be the same work, to do a 130pd engine, for that reason I would go that route. Or consider a 'mtdi' conversion which does away with the electrics on the 90-110hp fuel pump?
There is probably a tax reason a 1.6 would be desirable. The 80hp td was also in passats approx 1992. I would avoid the 1.9td version, only 75hp as it was set up to be 'environmentally friendly' or umwelt in german. As it was known for chewing it's bottom pulley key, became nicknamed 'unwellt'.
The 80 came with 80 hp 1.6TD engines RA 88-90 and SB 89-91, not sure which markets received them? Passat/golf transverse mounted engines will need the sump, pickup pipe, flywheel and clutch off a longitudinal mount engine.

[scotty33]

I looked it up here: http://download.ms-motor-service.com/ximages/PDF_Kataloge/ko_volkswagen_web.pdf

Probably same engine but detuned to 68hp for the T4, just my opinion. Looks to be same pistons, compression ratio, etc

[Doctle Odd]

Thanks mate, that's a useful pdf, a keeper. I agree with your analysis back to the drawing board!

[scotty33]

Sorry missed all the modding discussion, some mtdi stuff in this thread if you have not found it already?

Re-map or Chip the 80 Tdi... (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?105973-Re-map-or-Chip-the-80-Tdi&highlight=mtdi)