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View Full Version : HELP! Entire fueling system shot after remap and DPF Removal A4 B8 143 2009



bertiebowser11
14-08-2013, 06:04 PM
Hi all am a noob but just need some help as today the garage called to say the worst.

Basically I had the car remapped and DPF removal about 3 weeks ago, car went like a rocket, but got the additional limp mode, took it back, they toned it down a touch and was fine, no over boost or limp mode, ran perfectly for a couple of weeks, then whilst sitting stationary the limp mode light came on again, I limped it home, switched off switched on and it was gone. thought ahh be fine will take back to garage on Monday and left it. Monday came and started to drive to remappers and light came on this time wouldn't go away after switch off and there was smoke coming out the exhaust. managed to limp it there and they put it on a diagnostics which showed fuel pressure too low, so they sent me to a fuel electric specialist in Exeter, so I limped it there smoking away in traffic when eventually the entire thing conked out and wouldn't restart, so the pulled in the lay by and waiting for the RAC to TOE ME TO THE fuel specialist. where I left it with them. Today I got the call from them and asked for details in an email which are below:


QUOTE

"Dear Mr Bowser,

Please find the pricing details of your Audi A4 2.0Tdi below.

Vehicle starts, idles poorly, smoke badly with engine management light on then cuts out. Read faults in vehicle system to find fuel pressure faults in system. Pre-supply pressure is correct (5bar). Check high pressure pump output pressure to find low. Remove control valve to find full of metal, advise full system replacement required. Check fuel sample from system to find clean.

All prices are for genuine Bosch parts:

High Pressure Pump £760.39
4 x injectors £207.00 each
1 x sender unit £129.10
Sundries (filters, pipes etc) £100.00 approx. (unknown until fully stripped down)

Labour- 8hrs @ £60 per hour £480.00 to include cleaning of system and replacement of all above mentioned parts

Total - £2297.49

All prices quoted exclude VAT"

I then asked if it could be anything to do with the remap and he said no - COPY BELOW (bearing in mind this is a TOTALY different garage non related to the tuners miles away"

QUOTE:

"Afternoon,

Difficult to give any real reason for this happening, the engine remap should have no effect on the fuel system or the DPF removal either. With any common rail diesel system the cleanliness of the fuel is the most important thing because of the extreme closeness of the tolerances involved . Any foreign matter is detrimental to the service life of many of the components in the system.

Regards

Neil"


So my begging question, is WHY did this happen??? is it a co-incidence that after boosting everything with a remap my entire fuel system blows up, or am I very unfortunate and this was gonna go soon anyway and the map just lowerd the life even greater. They seemed to think the only reason this could happen would be dirty fuel but the fuel was tested and was clean! had just hit 70,000 BTW

Am very confused and very upset :-(

Bertie

zollaf
14-08-2013, 06:14 PM
a remap can have no affect on the pump and injectors. a map will put more fuel and air into a cylinder, but the pump just runs off the engine and pressurises the common rail with diesel at 20,000 psi. 5,000 psi will cut through steel, so 20k is an awful lot of pressure. things do go wrong with them though, often using additives not designed for common rails or putting petrol in by mistake. as they said, the tolerances are tiny, a human hair is massive by comparisson. a diesel specialsist should be able to rebuild the pump and the injectors though for substantially less money.

bertiebowser11
14-08-2013, 06:17 PM
So a pure coincidence and very unlucky? or do they go at around 70k? I personally have always only used esso premium diesel the 12 months I have had it but that's not to say someone else ***** it before hand I spose

zollaf
14-08-2013, 06:24 PM
yep, pure coincidence i'm afraid and not something a remap can cause. not something that always goes, some will go on for many miles with no faults , others will die a lot younger. its the same system used on a lot of cars since about 2000, so well tried and tested but the tolerances are so amazingly close that the slightest tiny bit of muck , dodgy fuel or just bad luck can quickly destroy things. the pump might still be well enough to pressurise to 10,000 psi, but thats not enough for it to run on. to get that sort of pressure is one amazing feat of engineering.

bertiebowser11
28-08-2013, 04:32 PM
UPDATE: I am now £3500 lighter after the initial DPF removal and MAP which shortly was followed by complete fueling system failure after the pump grinded itself to pieces. Collected today an within half a mile car went into limp mode AGAIN. with the glow plugs light flashing (book says that engine management). took it back to electro diesel who plugged it in an wiped the code, all they said was weird generic code. and off I went. blasted down the motorway felt fantastic. no problems if anything a dam sight stronger than before. I then left at the office for a couple of hours, then went to start it, same thing, engine management light flashing so turn off and on again and it clears, once its cleared I then drove for 2 hours trouble free, in traffic, motorway etc etc. got to destination. left it for an hour came back went to start, straight to limp mode before even pulling away until switch off and on again, then no lights and fine again on the roads for an hour.

I have just tried something by switching on the ignition before depressing the clutch and pressing the key in a second time to start and so far (last 3 times) its been fine, but if you just depress the clutch the first time you press key to start, the glow plug light flashes and its in limp mode, although drives ok but slowly.
Its going back to the garage AGAIN tomorrow but am swiftly losing faith in audi as this is my first and 12 months and £4k of bills its not particularly impressive!

bertiebowser11
28-08-2013, 04:46 PM
these are the pics the garage took of the culprit pump that stuffed the fueling system

bertiebowser11
28-08-2013, 04:50 PM
I still find it so hard to believe that I had a car that was 100% reliable for 12 months, take it in for dpf removal and map and since then I have had headache after headache after headache. first overboost problem, then engine management light to limp mode which ended up with fuel pump failure, then entire fuel system rebuild and even after all of that I drive off and have another engine management light on!

bertiebowser11
28-08-2013, 08:20 PM
OK so this evening I have let it get cold and then take out for a blast, no limp mode, started stopped started stopped, warmed up, still not throwing any codes thus far. the oil is quite low (unbelievably after being in the garage for 2 weeks) would this through an engine management light (glow plug flash on startup and clear after restart?) alternatively could the ECU just be learning the fact that it now has 4 new injectors, all new pumps etc?

Kar Krazy
28-08-2013, 08:47 PM
Sounds to me like a previous owner put petrol in and ran it. The fuel pump uses the diesel fuel as its lubricant, so it was run without oil before the engine made some shocking noises that caused them to switch it off, then they got rid of the car after being advised how much it could cost to fix.

Did you have the DPF removed because it was blocking up and giving you trouble, or purely to improve performance?

bertiebowser11
28-08-2013, 08:55 PM
I think your definitely right, most people including the garage are under this impression although it did last 12 months since I owned it then all went wrong after dpf removal and map, but as people have said an unfortunate coincidence. DPF was removed when was remapped as per recommendation of the tuning company, although was never experiencing and regen issue prior.

bertiebowser11
28-08-2013, 08:57 PM
still left with this intermittent engine management light though, see what the garage makes of it in the morning, it seems better after today use and this evening I havnt managed to make it re occur so im hoping that its just settling down (if such a thing exists)

Kar Krazy
28-08-2013, 09:56 PM
Sounds like the low fuel pressure caused underfuelling and this made you unhappy with the performance. Then the remap company talked you into a DPF removal you didn't need and charged you £1200 for £500 of work. Then the remap was set up, inadvertently compensating for the low fuel pressure, calling for a higher fuel flow rate, hastening the end of the pump.

Once the pump was replaced, the remap still calls for excess fuel just like before, but now the pressure is correct, so it doesn't need to compensate, but it still is compensating for low fuel pressure. So the remap is overfuelling the engine.

I would take it back to the remap company, play the innocent, don't mention the pump replacement, and get them to fix the map. And maybe get a partial refund for all your inconvenience and wasted time and fuel.

The golden rule with any mod especially remaps, is to get everything else right before you mod. I'm surprised the remappers didn't spot the low fuel pressure on their system - they must have some diagnostics when they plug into the ECU? But if you mention this, it will lead to the conversation about the pump, so best steer clear.

Please don't blame Audi for the misfortune caused by the car's mistreatment!

bertiebowser11
28-08-2013, 10:18 PM
Sounds very feasible but i watched them diag the car before and after the map which threw no codes until 3 weeks layer i limped in there before they passed me on to specialist due to that reading showing fuel pressure issues at which point it ended up conking out all together on the journey from mappers to specialist

Kar Krazy
28-08-2013, 10:50 PM
Oh yes, I forgot you said the remap company recommended the other specialist, so they will have spoken. Still, it shouldn't stop you going back to see what they can do.

g19aby
16-10-2013, 04:50 PM
Just been reading through and just cant believe the problems and the cost. So what has happened since?
I'm wanting to chip my 2012 golf tdi but not wanting to go through the problems i had with my insignia.

toofunkyhouse
22-10-2013, 04:48 PM
who are the mappers? Sound like cow boys who just turn up the fuel like the box's do. I went with REVO for my map, mines been perfect so far. Goes well too even with the DPF

bertiebowser11
24-10-2013, 04:59 PM
Been fine ever since the limp mode stopped, (which it did on its own) after the new fuel system the car kept going into limp mode for no reason for about a day or 2 afterwards, sometimes straight away sometimes after a while, everytime I took back to be diag'd no codes thrown, the chap said he thinks the ECU is just relearning the new pressures due to the replacement system, and sure enough after about 2-3 days, the random lights just went away! have done about well over 1500 miles since and not missed a beat :-) THANK GOD and I don't want to tempt fate!!!!