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Johnny31
15-04-2013, 11:12 AM
Hi guys,
Is there anybody out there with remapped 3.0TDI (245)? Was it worth it and are you satisfied with the results? I'm asking as the typical "customers" are usually 2.0 (177) looking for a bit more (and raving about the results) but I'm tempted (according to many websites, easy to get 300+PS from the 3.0) and considering it for the ordered baby...

retired99
15-04-2013, 12:57 PM
Not a direct answer to your question but some thoughts:

if Audi spot this you can wave goodbye to your warranty. If the supplier tell you it's undetectable don't believe them.

Consider the transmission. Audi fit a different gearbox to the Bitdi as the transmission fitted to the 245ps car isn't up to managing the Bitdi's power outputs. I would guess it's the torque that's the problem and it's the torque that typically gets the biggest increase when a diesel is remapped.

Don't forget to tell your insurance company.

Johnny31
15-04-2013, 01:12 PM
Very good points I guess... Might need to wait 3 years before playing then (as the S-tronic should be more than capable to handle the offered torque increase)! :)

retired99
15-04-2013, 01:17 PM
Very good points I guess... Might need to wait 3 years before playing then (as the S-tronic should be more than capable to handle the offered torque increase)! :)

What is the torque rating of the gearbox fitted to the 245ps powered A6s?

EvilPostIt
15-04-2013, 01:41 PM
Are you talking about a custom re-map based upon your specific engine by a professional tuning company or the 1 map fits all kinda thing from a company like superchips? I know for a fact that given the right tools it is possible to find if an engine has been remapped!

Also, when you take the car in for a service if a software update is done the re-map could be overwritten to revert back to the original audi one.

Johnny31
15-04-2013, 01:54 PM
According to this (Direct-Shift Gearbox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-Shift_Gearbox#cite_note-DCTfactsVWAG-7)) the limit is around 600Nm... Which makes the entire idea kind of wrong as the default car has 580Nm... Something is not right!

Whippy53
15-04-2013, 02:45 PM
And the Multichronic is rated as upto 400Nm, which is whe the 3.0ltr puts out, they really want us living on the edge don't they?

jbanfie
15-04-2013, 03:10 PM
Likewise the sh*tronic - oops - I meant tiptronic

http://www.zf.com/media/media/productfinder_media/cars/cars_driveline_8_speed_automatic_transmission/pdf_2/8HP55A_DataSheet.pdf

650NM from bi-turbo same for gearbox

AGW82
16-04-2013, 08:00 AM
I've been considering my options on this as well, and after some research came up with this solution as one of the better options Diesel Tuning UK LTD | Improved Diesel Performance And Economy | Digital Diesel Tuning Box (http://www.diesel-performance.co.uk/) The CRD-T unit plugs into the common rail and turbo, so boost and fuel can be increased. There are other products out there that seem to do the same job for less, but they seem to be inferior quality. This unit is apparently undetectable simply due to the fact you would remove it before taking it to the dealership for servicing etc.

As the other guys have said it's all about what risk you're prepared to take. I personally don't believe the S-Tronic box will only take 600Nm (but then I'm not a gearbox designer), this will be a safe limit Audi are prepared to guarantee, but are you willing to take the risk? I would give Andy the MD at DTUK a call and have a chat, he's very knowledgeable and an Audi driver (A7 BiTDI).

retired99
16-04-2013, 09:57 AM
I've been considering my options on this as well, and after some research came up with this solution as one of the better options Diesel Tuning UK LTD | Improved Diesel Performance And Economy | Digital Diesel Tuning Box (http://www.diesel-performance.co.uk/) The CRD-T unit plugs into the common rail and turbo, so boost and fuel can be increased. There are other products out there that seem to do the same job for less, but they seem to be inferior quality. This unit is apparently undetectable simply due to the fact you would remove it before taking it to the dealership for servicing etc.

As the other guys have said it's all about what risk you're prepared to take. I personally don't believe the S-Tronic box will only take 600Nm (but then I'm not a gearbox designer), this will be a safe limit Audi are prepared to guarantee, but are you willing to take the risk? I would give Andy the MD at DTUK a call and have a chat, he's very knowledgeable and an Audi driver (A7 BiTDI).

I think the gearbox ratings are 'continuous' meaning that these are the values the gearbox can handle on a continuous basis; not something that happens very often. I also suspect you're right there is an element of safety built into the ratings.

EvilPostIt
16-04-2013, 10:08 AM
I think the gearbox ratings are 'continuous' meaning that these are the values the gearbox can handle on a continuous basis; not something that happens very often. I also suspect you're right there is an element of safety built into the ratings.

These torque limits are reached at an RPM lower than you would expect in turbo diesel cars. Take a look at these power curves based upon the 3.0 245BHP A6.

http://www.superchips.co.uk/curves/245ps%20EDC17%203L%20TDI%20V6.pdf

As you can see it hits these high torque points quite early on, so more often than you may think.

retired99
16-04-2013, 10:43 AM
These torque limits are reached at an RPM lower than you would expect in turbo diesel cars. Take a look at these power curves based upon the 3.0 245BHP A6.

http://www.superchips.co.uk/curves/245ps%20EDC17%203L%20TDI%20V6.pdf

As you can see it hits these high torque points quite early on, so more often than you may think.

I'm not against remapping in principle but that torque curve versus the gearbox spec would put me off.

AGW82
16-04-2013, 11:11 AM
Could be worth asking ABT what the gearbox can handle http://www.abt-configurator.com/configurator.aspx?ma=audi&mo=a6&ty=Limousine&tzu=4G0&langid=en as these guys are one of the main VAG tuning houses they should know.

Their kit incidentally puts power up to 300HP and Torque to 580Nm...

Whippy53
16-04-2013, 11:54 AM
I don't know if it's just me but for the life of me I don't understand why anyone would seriously entertain chipping a brand new car. Frighten the life outa me just to think about what might go wrong!

Guest 2
16-04-2013, 12:34 PM
Remember with 2010+ cars the remap is done directly into the ECU,not the OBD so I'd be more worried about keeping the warranty intact than a few extra horses IMO.


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AGW82
16-04-2013, 12:48 PM
I don't know if it's just me but for the life of me I don't understand why anyone would seriously entertain chipping a brand new car. Frighten the life outa me just to think about what might go wrong!

It is a mind set you have to have I think...

You might have really wanted the 3.0TDI but could only afford the 2.0TDI or you might have wanted the 3.0 BiTDI but could only afford the 3.0TDI etc etc... chip tuning is a way of getting closer to what you wanted without the associated price tag.

You have to remember the engines in most modern cars are not tuned to provide their maximum performance, this isn't always to do with longevity or reliability, but the varying conditions the engine might find it's self in, for instance poor fuel quality or extreme heat or cold. Audi don't want to have 100's of engine maps for the same car in varying situations so they choose a map which is suitable for most situations.

So if you can get some more HP and extra MPG without any detrimental effect to the car then why not? Yes there will be additional wear and tear but as long as you stick within the tolerances of the weakest components everything will be ok.

Audi should soon be announcing a new 2.0TDI unit that will produce close to 200HP, do you think this will be a fundamentally different engine to the current 175HP unit? It's unlikely, they will more than likely just change the ECU map and a do few other tweaks on the current unit to ensure it meets EU regulations.

If you are sensible about how much you increase power/torque etc then you shouldn't get any trouble, if you start getting greedy then you will start to get major issues.

Whippy53
16-04-2013, 12:48 PM
Yeah, my point exactly, could be a very expensive tune up!

AGW82
16-04-2013, 12:50 PM
Remember with 2010+ cars the remap is done directly into the ECU,not the OBD so I'd be more worried about keeping the warranty intact than a few extra horses IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

But if you use a Diesel Tuning box nothing gets written to the ECU, so as long as it's removed before any Warranty/Service work you should be ok.

Whippy53
16-04-2013, 12:51 PM
It is a mind set you have to have I think...

You might have really wanted the 3.0TDI but could only afford the 2.0TDI or you might have wanted the 3.0TDI BiTDI but could only afford the 3.0TDI etc etc... chip tuning is a way of getting closer to what you wanted without the associated price tag.

You have to remember the engines in most modern cars are not tuned to provide their maximum performance, this isn't always to do with longevity or reliability, but the varying conditions the engine might find it's self in, for instance poor fuel quality or extreme heat or cold. Audi don't want to have 100's of engine maps for the same car in varying situations so they choose a map which is suitable for most situations.

So if you can get some more HP and extra MPG without any detrimental effect to the car then why not? Yes there will be additional wear and tear but as long as you stick within the tolerances of the weakest components everything will be ok.

Audi should soon be announcing a new 2.0TDI unit that will produce close to 200HP, do you think this will be a fundamentally different engine to the current 175HP unit? It's unlikely, they will more than likely just change the ECU map and a do few other tweaks on the current unit to ensure it meets EU regulations.

If you are sensible about how much you increase power/torque etc then you shouldn't get any trouble, if you start getting greedy then you will start to get major issues.


All very good, but if anything goes wrong and you get taken to an Audio garage they will find the remap, no more warranty. OUCH!!

AGW82
16-04-2013, 12:55 PM
All very good, but if anything goes wrong and you get taken to an Audio garage they will find the remap, no more warranty. OUCH!!

If you use a Diesel Tuning box, it can be removed in 5 minutes at the road side without tools.

If you're of a mind set to modify then you have to be comfortable with the potential consequences I guess..

Guest 2
16-04-2013, 01:03 PM
But if you use a Diesel Tuning box nothing gets written to the ECU, so as long as it's removed before any Warranty/Service work you should be ok.

Most are just a resistor in a fancy box which fools your car into thinking its running cold hence injecting more fuel whereas a remap is actually suited to the car.

As the tuning box isn't made for each specific engine if the car shows a turbo overboost fault code then Audi are going to ask why.


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AGW82
16-04-2013, 01:18 PM
Most are just a resistor in a fancy box which fools your car into thinking its running cold hence injecting more fuel whereas a remap is actually suited to the car.

As the tuning box isn't made for each specific engine if the car shows a turbo overboost fault code then Audi are going to ask why.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

I thought the more expensive units were more than just a resistor in a fancy box, and were actually programmed for the specific engine, I'm still researching so can't say for certain.

I'm sure the ECU re-mappers will say they are just a box of resistors and the people who produce the tuning box will say not..

I'm sure the Dealer/Audi could make life difficult if you had dodgy fault codes logged, but if they can't prove foul play then they will ultimately have to honor the warranty.