A3 8p 2005, 2.0 TDI BKD wont fire

[mikey2012]

Hi

I am looking for anyone that has had this issue before to try and find a solution

Car has been driving fine (apart from the common hot start issue) until yesterday, I tried to start it yesterday and it was just spinning over but wouldn't fire.

I scanned it today (not with VCDS) and it brought up cylinder 1,2,3 glowplug circuit fault. However because of Easter i wasn't able to get any new ones. I conducted a resistance check of the glowplugs and it highlighted:

Cylinder 1: 8 ohms
Cylinder 2: Open Circuit
Cylinder 3: 6 ohms
Cylinder 4: 34 ohms

No other faults were found. I will get some new plugs tomorrow (hopefully) and fit them but i am not convinced they will solve the problem. I was cranking for a while and it did not even slightly attempt to fire. The glowplug light comes on when preheating is taking place and extinguishes as it should and doesn't come on when cranking. Battery is also good.

Has anyone else had this issue. I will keep you updated when i find out what's wrong

[NHN]

So many glowplugs errors at once, would suggest a known issue of the injector/plug loom, I would maybe look at this as well.

[mikey2012]

So many glowplugs errors at once, would suggest a known issue of the injector/plug loom, I would maybe look at this as well.

I was thinking that aswell NHN but (i forgot to put in my first post) i am getting voltage at the connectors, i am getting a spike of battery voltage for about a second and then dropping down to about 2-4 volts, is this right. I would have expected battery voltage for a little longer.

My local parts dealers Havant got any on the shelve so i will have to get them off of ebay as i have said before i am not convinced but unless i rule out the glow plugs i will be no further forward, and that's the only thing the tester is bringing up.

Thank you for your reply.

[mikey2012]

Just to keep anyone who many have the same trouble.

I have replaced the glow plugs, before hand i checked them with a dedicated tester and it showed 3 dead plugs and 1 with high resistance, However the problem is still there. Another scan with my laptop showed no other faults.

A spray of easy start made it start briefly so compression is ok.

I plan to do a continuity test on the loom tomorrow to check for breaks.

[mikey2012]

Well i removed the loom and done a continuity test from glowplug connectors and injector connectors to plug and everything is fine.

I have now come to the conclusion that the scanner i am using is rubbish, i disconnected the MAF sensor and cam position sensors and my scanner showed nothing :zx11: so its now time to invest in some VCDS :(

[mikey2012]

Just to keep everyone updated. VCDS arrived today and scan on the car showed....... No faults :zx11:.

Judging from this i am verging to a mechanical issue. I removed the fuel line from the tank to filter with the ignition switched on a spurt of derv was delivered but then nothing, i thought this maybe it but further reading suggests that the lift pump doesn't operate untill the car is started or cranking.

I plan to permanently power the lift pump tomorrow to rule out any signalling issues from the ECU. Otherwise i am stuck i was hoping VCDS would show something

[Geraldy212]

Have you checked/changed the fuel filter? A long shot perhaps.

[djgilson]

We have the same symptoms on my wife’s car, same engine, year 2004, 104,000 miles. Every now and then in the last year or two it’s needed prolonged cranking starting from cold. Last time, it ran the battery right down, and required a long period on charge before starting reluctantly. No codes have shown up.


I’ve replaced the battery and the starter motor in this period (for unrelated reasons) - (but not the fuel filter).


What we have noticed is that the problem only occurs when we park facing up a steep slope and when the weather is coldish and damp. (But very cold seems OK).


I’ve come to suspect the pump in the tank (because it has to lift the fuel that little bit further on a steep slope, bizarre though that seems).


We’ve lived with the problem so far, so I’m afraid I can’t offer any further advice. I’ll be interested to know if you have any success with the pump. Many thanks for all the updates so far.

[mikey2012]

What we have noticed is that the problem only occurs when we park facing up a steep slope and when the weather is coldish and damp. (But very cold seems OK).
.

Hi Djgilson

Thanks for your reply.

Its very strange that you should say about your being parked up a slope as mine is to parked up quite a steep slope!!!!

Fuel is being pumped to the filter by the lift pump whilst cranking so i am now going to look at the tandem pump tomorrow.

That really has got me thinking about the slope issue :confused:

[djgilson]

That’s interesting! Anyone else out there had the same problem on a slope?
I’d better also confess that 2 or 3 years ago I filled the tank with petrol and actually drove 100 yds. (What comes of running a diesel and a petrol at the same time......). Had the tank cleaned out and fuel filter changed, and seemed to get away with it, but ever since have been looking out for pump problems.
I might follow Geraldy212's suggestion and change the fuel filter again, but I’d have thought any blockage in the filter would affect high flow rates when the engine is working hard, not the starting phase.

[mikey2012]

Right I checked the injectors today. I have read about problems with them shorting to earth however none of mine do this. I then checked the resistance of the injector coils they are as follows:

Cylinder 1= 0.5 ohms
Cylinder 2= 0.3 ohms
Cylinder 3= 0.4 ohms
Cylinder 4= 0.4 ohms

So these seem OK.

Filter is ok as fuel is being delivered to the tandem pump. If anyone else is trying to see if they are getting fuel to to there filter don't let it catch you out. When the ignition is switched on a "spurt" of diesel is delivered and it should stop, a constant flow should only appear when the engine is being turned over.

I then turned my attention to the tandem pump. After dismantling the pump nothing seems untoward, I manually turned the pump over whilst filling with derv and there was only a dribble coming out. The pressure should be 3.5bar @1500rpm so iam looking for about 0.4bar @ turn over. I am going to make up a test gauge tomorrow to fit the test point on the pump. And then retest it back on the engine.

If the pressure is fine then...... who knows :aargh4:

I have been told that the ECU's are common for non-start issues so that may be an avenue I have to take

[NHN]

I've not heard of an ecu causing non start issues on bkd's, at all tbh, filter, tandem, injectors, injector loom, lift pump, coolant sensors, but not ecu as yet, that's not to say it isn't this, but its the last pit stop I'd check.

[mikey2012]

Hi NHN

I didnt hear of it before untill a bit of poking around on the internet, this ECU testing company say that it is a common fault:
Bosch EDC16U1/34 Audi ECU Repairs & Testing | Bluestreak (http://www.bluestreak.co.uk/product/part/bosch_edc16u1_34/id/1265/par/1225)

£45 isn't too bad just to see if i need to like you said i don't want to go down that road just yet but with VCDS showing no faults i don't really know where to look next, all mechanical components (expect the tandem which is to be tested next week) are OK.

[Crasher]

Put VCDS in measuring blocks and get the rpm showing, crank the engine over and keep cranking until the display sorts itself out (which will take about 10 seconds) and see if an rpm value of around 300 is displayed.

[mikey2012]

Hi crasher

I did that today, 280RPM was displayed but still no fire.

Thanks for your help though

[mikey2012]

sorry tried to edit a posted and managed to resubmit it. Mods if you could delete this message it would be appreciated :)

[mikey2012]

Well if you was thinking that you hadnt heard back from me so the problem must be fixed then you was wrong :biglaugh:.

Due to the lovely British weather i has taken me a while to have a look at it. I have managed to make up a test gauge and tested the pressure at the tandem today. During cranking 7 psi registered which is within the spec so we now know that fuel is ok up to the gallery in the actual head.

As i mentioned before about the ECU i had a look at it today, after removing the scuttle trim and removing the shear bolts the ecu had no obvious corrosion around the multi plug as pre other people were saying. I still havent ruled it out just yet but that is a resort i may have to take later.


I hope you lot don't mind but i am looking to pick your brains a little more.

Below is a read out of the trouble codes from VCDS:

VCDS Version: Release 11.11.5 (x64)
Data version: 20121222


Wednesday,17,April,2013,14:06:17:63344


Chassis Type: 1K0
Scan: 01 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 25 42 44 46 47 52 56 62 72 7D


00-Steering Angle Sensor -- Status: OK 0000
01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: Malfunction 0010
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: Malfunction 0010
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
47-Sound System -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: Malfunction 0010
62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000
7D-Aux. Heat -- Status: OK 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 03G-906-016-BKD.lbl
Part No SW: 03G 906 016 FF HW: 028 101 190 5
Component: R4 2,0L EDC G000SG 7364
Revision: 12345678 Serial number: AUX7Z0E3FNK0G1
Coding: 0000072
Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
VCID: 6CD717A14F7C8778ED4


No fault code found.
Readiness: 0 0 1 1 1


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 1K0-907-379-MK60-F.lbl
Part No: 1K0 907 379 K
Component: ESP FRONT MK60 0104
Coding: 0023174
Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
VCID: 3A7BE1F975A8E9C82F8


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 8P0-820-043.lbl
Part No SW: 8P0 820 043 H HW: 8P0 820 043 H
Component: KlimavollautomatH14 0180
Revision: 185376 Serial number: 8P0820043H
Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
VCID: 3169C6D5A8DE2A909E2


1 Fault Found:
01206 - Signal for Duration of Ignition Off Time
008 - Implausible Signal
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01101000
Fault Priority: 3
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 93
Mileage: 180238 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2013.03.31
Time: 00:10:13


Freeze Frame:




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 8P0-907-279-23-H.lbl
Part No SW: 8P0 907 279 C HW: 8P0 907 279 C
Component: Bordnetz-SG H37 0301
Revision: 00H37000 Serial number: 00000001832242
Coding: E4885F02B214100000160000160000000000FA075C
Shop #: WSC 06314 000 08192
VCID: 3D71EAE56486DEF00AA


Subsystem 1 - Part No: 8P2 955 119 B Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
Component: Wischer AU350 H01 0130
Coding: 00062736
Shop #: WSC 06314


Subsystem 2 - Part No: 4E0 910 557 Labels: 8K0-955-559.CLB
Component: REGENLICHTSENSORH10 0050
Coding: 00150573
Shop #: WSC 06314


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 8P0-959-655-94.lbl
Part No SW: 8P0 959 655 C HW: 8P0 959 655 C
Component: Airbag 9.41 H10 3230
Revision: 91H10323 Serial number: 003620031E0T
Coding: 0034622
Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
VCID: 428B99191D78A108778


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 8P0-953-549.lbl
Part No SW: 8P0 953 549 C HW: 8P0 953 549 C
Component: Lenksäulenmodul H21 0050
Coding: 0000022
Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
VCID: 3E73EDE96980C5E8130


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 8P0-920-xxx-17-MY7.lbl
Part No SW: 8P0 920 950 R HW: 8P0 920 950 R
Component: KOMBIINSTR. VDO H73 0300
Revision: D05 Serial number: 1243ED05002730
Coding: 0004443
Shop #: WSC 80093 222 69422
VCID: 43859C1D0262A8007CE


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 1K0-907-530-V1.clb
Part No SW: 1K0 907 530 D HW: 1K0 907 951
Component: Gateway H08 0100
Revision: 08 Serial number: 250010542387DD
Coding: 3D3F0B42072103
Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
VCID: 285F2BB19B046B5849C


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-25.clb
Part No SW: 8P0 920 950 R HW: 8P0 920 950 R
Component: KOMBIINSTR. VDO H73 0300
Revision: D05 Serial number: AUX7Z0E3FNK0G1
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 43859C1D0262A8007CE


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver Labels: 8P0-959-801-MAX1.lbl
Part No: 8P0 959 801 F
Component: Tuersteuerger. H10 0040
Coding: 0000120
Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
VCID: 3E73EDE96980C5E8130


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist Labels: 1Kx-909-14x-44.clb
Part No: 1K2 909 144 H
Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl.8 1502
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 3169C6D5A8DE2A909E2


1 Fault Found:
00778 - Steering Angle Sensor (G85)
000 - -


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 8P0-959-433.lbl
Part No: 8P0 959 433 C
Component: KSG H04 0050
Coding: 198000186D088505489FC63000
Shop #: WSC 06435 000 00000
VCID: 3C77E7E17F9CD7F83D4


Part No: 1K0 951 605 C
Component: LIN BACKUP HORN H03 1301


Part No: 1K0 907 719 B
Component: Neigungssensor 004 0003


Part No: 8P0 951 177
Component: Innenraumueberw.H03 0020


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 47: Sound System Labels: 8Px-035-382.lbl
Part No SW: 8P4 035 382 HW: 8P4 035 382
Component: AB2 SUBWOOFERBOXH03 0180
Revision: 00002 Serial number: 10000001245889
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: F1E986D5E85EEA905E2


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass. Labels: 8P0-959-802-MAX1.lbl
Part No: 8P0 959 802 F
Component: Tuersteuerger. H10 0040
Coding: 0000120
Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
VCID: 3F8D90ED6E8ACCE0186


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio Labels: None
Part No SW: 8P0 057 186 CX HW: 8P0 057 186 CX
Component: concert II EU H52 0100
Revision: 02S Serial number: AUZ2Z3E3161640
Coding: 0000000
Shop #: WSC 00046 000 73728
VCID: 8E13FD2999A09568230


1 Fault Found:
01042 - Control Module; Not Coded
000 - -
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100000
Fault Priority: 5
Fault Frequency: 1




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 62: Door, Rear Left Labels: 8P4-959-801.lbl
Part No: 8P4 959 801 B
Component: Tuer-SG 010 0030
Coding: 0000216
Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
VCID: 3E73EDE96980C5E8130


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 72: Door, Rear Right Labels: 8P4-959-802.lbl
Part No: 8P4 959 802 B
Component: Tuer-SG 010 0030
Coding: 0000216
Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
VCID: 3F8D90ED6E8ACCE0186


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 7D: Aux. Heat Labels: 1K0-963-235.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 963 235 E HW: 1K0 963 235 E
Component: PTC-Element 0404
Revision: 00800000 Serial number:
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 2D51DAA5B4E64E70BAA


No fault code found.


End ---------------------------------------------------------------------




As i have just got VCDS iam not up to speed with it all just yet. In the summary, engine is showing a malufunction 0010 but no fault codes, do this mean that there is a fault in the system?

I also took some measurements in the measuring blocks


1/ Start Injection Quantity 51.6 mg/str (cranking) Is this normal?


2/Torsion Value -4.9KW (Cranking) I was under the impression it had to be closer to 0KW


No Injection Deviation 00.00mg/str (cranking) does this only register when the engine is started


Injection Status 128.0 on all cylinders Is this ok and if so what does the 128.0 mean exactly?

Switch time Deviat 0.0 all cylinders Is this ok and if so what does Switch time deviat mean exactly?


Injection Duration 11.7 KW Is this normal?


Thanks everyone for your help so far its really appreciated.

Ps: Its quite ironic that underneath my name on this forum is "engine idling". That's all i want mine to do!!:D

[mikey2012]

Well Success:biglaugh:

I sent the ECU away to Bluestreak ECU testing, if you ever need an ECU testing send it to these people., I sent it about mid day on Monday via special delivery, next day about 10:00 i got a call saying that my ECU had arrived and another call at 12:00 to say that they had tested my ECU and it had come back clean, paid for it there and then (£45 test fee) and low and behold i received the ECU back on Wednesday morning. Top Service ;)

Anyway so the ECU came back clean, so I was quite disheartened. I plugged the ECU back in today and tried to started it but nothing so broke the VCDS out. Just as i was looking at the values i decided to remove one of the injector connectors and spin it over to see if the deviations moved, as i was spinning it over it struggled into life. Connector was replaced and the engine restarted fine, done 30 miles in it today and it hasn't missed a beat and seems to start up better when hot than it did before. Even gave it a celebratory wash (and then it rained)

When it started first time cylinder 3 deviations was at 1.28 with the others at -0.02 to -0.20, but after a couple of minutes everything levelled out. Torsions value is way way out at -4.9 so that is my next job, just very glad to get it going at long last.

Is pulling well with no excessive smoke, i personally reckon that the fault was with the ECU and when they have done their test it has cleared the fault.

Thanks for your help everyone that has participated

[Crasher]

On the BMN engine I would say you have a faulty injector, probably (by luck) the one you disconnected. What you did is the standard way to diagnose a faulty injector.

[mikey2012]

Hi Crasher thanks for your reply.

I was thinking this, however before i sent the ECU away i removed (in turn) every injector connector and spun it over and it never even tried to fire. I can understand what you are saying as its a coincidence that i removed cylinder 3 and it started and cylinder 3 had the high deviation. But would the deviation settle out if it was a faulty injector? i am really baffled by this one so after a little help lol.

Certainly going to make sure my AA membership is in date in-case it does it to me again and iam not at home!!

[Crasher]

I would replace injector three.