Would you buy / Have you bought ex-rental ?

[Europa25]

I've just traded in my Passat I owned for the last 4 years, and went for a Golf TSi SE at VW.

I'm not happy with the Golf, re noise / effectively concealed bodywork issues, so VW have a 30 day no-quibble exchange which I am regrettably having to use. I had a v short test drive with a rather authoritative salesman below 40mph, whereas I use the motorway constantly.

I've decided to go back to what I know - Passat - and have been offered a B7 for not much more, though 2 years younger.

It's 9 months old, 16k, 1.6TDi S BMT manual.

They're asking (mileage adjusted) full price , so having maybe had 100+drivers, many washes, and I'm not sure what kind of treatment.
I haven't seen the car yet, as they are sourcing a handful. As I say, it's main dealership, 27 months left on the warranty.
(I'm not sure how the wear and tear factor fits in with in this), but I need something reliable, as it will spend 90% of it's life on the M25!

I'm torn between this, or possibly a very late ie 10 plate B6 with better spec with one careful owner !

The car arrives at the dealership this week, so I shall look then, but could it be more trouble than it's worth ?
I haven't hired for a while, but think that most car renters tend to thrash/test the vehicle, kerb it, plus it could have had some scrapes at 1700 miles a month.

It's an ex - Avis airport vehicle.

Really appreciate any feedback please !

[sarah_a3]

Have no experience in buying an ex rental so can't help there. But I work for a big company and we are given hire cars when out on business and I think many other companies operate this way. I'm always very careful with the cars (don't want to lose my job!) but have heard many stories from colleagues about testing out the cars (such as the first gear challenge) so there's definitely a risk of it having been used and abused. Remember also that for each rental, these cars are probably driven by three people - a delivery driver each way and the renter themselves. You're correct on the many washes front as they deliver a clean car each time so could be several washes a week at this time of year. There's usually at least some kerbing or scratches on models I get which are generally less than six months old so I'd imagine all this is tidied up with smart repair techniques before being sold on. Worth keeping an eye out for these when you take a look.

Ultimately it's a function of the component reliability from when it was made and the treatment it's had since new. I bet this can vary massively between two rental cars so you need to judge it after viewing. It's not unheard of that a well used car can actually turn out to be more reliable than a one owner example!!

personally I'd always go with a slightly older car with more specification. Good luck with your purchase though and I hope I haven't put you off an ex rental :-)

[Europa25]

Thanks Sarah, loads of info and more to consider !

I think at 16k, I'd be lucky if each and every user had been a decent one - but then you could get an ex blue-chip company car that was driven by a nutter for it's whole life too!

Haven't heard of the first gear challenge, and a good point about the delivery drivers too, especially on long one-wayers, I've known a couple, and they didn't value the cars as they were paid so little...and thought they'd have a bit of fun with a vehicle type they could maybe never own!

It's going to have to come down to a thorough look-over and a decent test drive... tempted to get a RAC used vehicle check as a back-up maybe too.

Thanks again,appreciate it.

[Guest 2]

a previous thread here - VW Dealerships selling ex rental cars. (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?60993-VW-Dealerships-selling-ex-rental-cars)

i wouldn't touch one with a bargepole .. remember there are other cars out there for sale, dont jump at the first one you see.

[Europa25]

Cheers Chris, and thanks for the link and advice...

Can you pop a quick reply with reason why you wouldn't touch ex-rental ?! I'd appreciate it.

Is it from personal experience or engineering know-how ?! I'm close to having to make a decision, and you're totally right, I shouldn't be talked into the first thing that comes along.

Although 27 months VW warranty remains, I'm not sure how much could be put to the wear and tear aspect if there are problems.

Thanks again

[-M-]

I would also stay clear of ex-rental cars if possible. Being in VW dealerships the trend especially in the UK was that fleet companies only spent the minimum amount of money that had to be spent on their fleets.

From experience most ex fleet cars that then went back to VW dealers to be resold were pretty much unloved and always had a service overdue on them - that is to say the reminder was up and could have been for some time. Fleet cars are on longlife and they tend to only run the cars untill the service is due - when servicing was carried out it was rarely with a VW dealer as fleet choose their own cheaper garages for servicing.

The driver is responsible for oil top-ups so you have no idea what oil they may have put in it.

There was also a lot of wear and tear on these vehicles due to the fact they have been driven by x amount of people who don't care or respect the car due to it not being their own vehicle. The vehicle especially the engine needs a gentle hand when first being driven for the 1st year/10,000 miles in order for it to break and settle in. The amount of different drivers it could have had also increases the wear and tear risks especially on manual transmissions where the clutch wear and any faults relating to it would not be covered by VW as it is a wear and tear item that could have failed prematurely due to driver operation.

For example - i recently saw a Tiguan ex-demonstrator with 1000 km/620 miles with a clutch friction plate fault - the lining had come off its plate. VW offered to pay for it under goodwill but still suggested that it was due to driver error and not a parts fault so you have to watch out there.

[Guest 2]

Cheers Chris, and thanks for the link and advice...

Can you pop a quick reply with reason why you wouldn't touch ex-rental ?! I'd appreciate it.

Is it from personal experience or engineering know-how ?! I'm close to having to make a decision, and you're totally right, I shouldn't be talked into the first thing that comes along.

Although 27 months VW warranty remains, I'm not sure how much could be put to the wear and tear aspect if there are problems.

Thanks again

I will do, just got a few things to do this morning and ill reply :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

[bertj]

Ask the dealer about ex. VW fleet cars. We bought a 9 month old Passat DSG SE tdi estate that had been used by a Bentley Motors manager. (Bentley, of course are owned by VW). It had only done 4k miles and had loads of extras. It was considerably cheaper than new and had obviously been looked after. It's an excellent car with no issues whatsoever. Your dealer should have a list of these cars. My dealer offered to obtain the car with no obligation to buy. The car had been prepared to an absolutely perfect standard and was like new.

[Europa25]

Thanks M and bert for your comments, appreciate it -and more to think about.
Thanks also Chris for offering to come along (just when you're ready), to comment further too.

I am tied to my dealer now, as it is a 30 day exchange, so it depends on their stock / what they can source.

For a similar price, I can get the ex-rental (1.6 TDi BMT S) (12) , 9 months old, 27 months manufacturer warranty.
or
it would be a 09/59 2.0TDi Highline, 40ish months old, 12 months used car warranty.
Of course the B6 would be higher spec, but the only thing the S doesn't have is park sensors/cruise which they can fit.

They have promised (!) that, they increasingly sell ex-rental, only the best of what's available and that-
VW will not take the car from Avis unless it is in very good condition, they will not accept it from source for the
same reasons, it will have a full major service and used car check-over and on top of that (apart from my instinct),
I will use my RAC cover to use their Essentials Plus vehicle inspection which covers 166 criteria and a full test drive.

Of course with any 2nd hand car, you never really know how it has been treated (you can get a feel), and of course I
am very conscious that this has had multiple drivers, and that could be it's achilles heel.

So it's a decision between newer technology,current model, higher future value, 9 months of (possibly some hard) life vs
40+ months of (possibly easier to determine) life, lower future value, previous model, possibly double the mileage.

See how the week unfolds, opinions, decisions, dealer promises are factored in and whether it is the right choice to sign on
or not !

Thanks again for all your thoughts.

[Guest 2]

I'm here now! *wooooosh*

My own experiences from driving courtesy cars, same thing.

I had a 6 month A4 3.0 TDi quattro on loan .. 10k miles, a large chunk out of the sidewall on the tyre, a large scuff/hole in the rear bumper, various scrapes inside etc.

That was the worst condition "new" car I've drove. It even had a drone from the front left wheel area.

That car had a tough life, and I'm sure its had many 0-60 launches, wheel spins and general messing about. I know I wouldn't of touched that car when it was up for sale.

If you search "rental car abuse" on youtube it pretty sums up why I would never touch one, yes it may look OK on the outside but think of the potential punishment the car has had from people taking the full insurance and giving the car back in whatever condition they leave it in.

When I was in Scotland last year, I stayed at the Holiday Inn Express outside Glasgow Airport and I witnessed a 12 plate Golf being wheel spun to within a inch of its life coming out of the rental office by two young fellas.

Saying that, if you chose the rental car it could be the best car you have ever had and it could go on trouble free for the next 100-200k and could be trouble free apart from wear and tear.

I know I would never touch one, unless it had less than 5k miles on it.

Some viewing - rental car abuse - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=rental+car+abuse&oq=rental+car+abuse&gs_l=youtube.3..0l5.24462.27047.0.27116.20.15.1.4. 5.0.190.1480.10j5.15.0...0.0...1ac.1.prazKQTGUdY)

[Europa25]

Thanks so much for getting back Chris, appreciate your time and viewpoints :)

I guess it's a 2-sided perspective.
Firstly, obviously the safety aspect is paramount, and that includes chassis/steering alignment and condition, brakes, suspension and overall integrity of the engine bay, fuel and exhaust systems. Also how it drives, and sounds. (I would hope, almost new).
Also, the tyres, discs, brake and clutch operation- and general performance.

Secondly, the ancillary components, cooling, air con, electrics and the systems inside together with exterior and interior condition, and any damage to paintwork, glass, and upholstery.

If after this, plus the VW check, RAC check and a major service, it seems like a no-go-er, I will take it from there.

They have to get it to the showroom first, and I'll see how far I have to commit until the car is prepared.
I wouldn't imagine a VW main dealer would want to force you to accept a no-goer.
I know alot of people in the area, who are all eyes at the mo!

Funny you should mention the Golf as a choice for abuse, as the salesman even said it is ex-rental 2.0GT's they are most reluctant
to accept, as 'would-be' boy racers hire them for a thrashing (Of all ages I'd imagine!)

I'll keep you all posted over the fortnight as to how it progresses and pans out - I won't have every confidence until
I have seen/driven it and had it thoroughly checked over. Only then I hope I can fully commit.

If not, may have to start again!

Thanks again, and all the best

[fat controller]

I think that each individual car has to be taken on its own merits really - when I was looking around recently (just before getting my A4), I saw a Mondeo Titanium X for sale in a local dealer that was ex-rental; it had just over 3k on the clock, had every conceivable extra and was absolutely mint; to be honest, if it wasn't four grand over my budget, I would have had it on the spot. However, on the same forecourt there was another Mondeo Titanium X, same toys, 4k-ish on the clock and it didn't have that same wow-factor to it (if you know what I mean?) - - something just wasn't 'right' with it, although there wasn't anything that you could reallly put your finger on other than kerbed alloys and the interior didn't look as new/clean.

The same can be said of any second hand car really; years ago, back in the days when I had company cars, I moved from a G-reg Passat (loved that car) to a Nissan Primera - I'd much rather have had a newer Passat, but the boss got a deal on the Nissans which included one for his wife. Hers and mine were collected from the dealers on the same day, they were even the same colour. Mine went everywhere with me be it motoroways or country roads, and despite my initial reservations about it, it turned out to be a damn fine car. Not once did it let me down, and it never asked for anything other than servicing and consumables in the 120k I put under its rubber. I washed it weekly, polished it regularly, checked tyre pressures and bulbs weekly and just generally cared for it as I would any car. At the end of my time with it, it was bought by a chap who was a customer of ours and he ran it on for at least another five years that I know of (maybe more).

Now, the bosses wife's car pootled about doing the shopping and taking her to and from work. In fairness, it did get around 40 miles per day on A-roads, so it wasn't confined to town runs and she kept it clean and tidy. In the third year of her having it, I got a call one morning to go and rescue her as her car had broken down, which I duly did and gave her my car whilst I waited with hers for the tow truck to the local Nissan dealer. A friend of mine worked in the Nissan dealer, and he was good enough to shoehorn the car in for immediate attention when we got to the dealer and organised me a loaner (a Sunny - horrid thing!).

The following day, he rang me and asked if I had half an hour to pop in - so I did. The Primera was on a lift, and he took me under it and unscrewed the sump plug. Somewhat perplexed, I asked him what it was that I wasn't 'getting' and he asked what should happen when a sump plug is removed; I replied, of course, that the oil will come out and asked if it had been drained already. He didn't answer, but instead picked up a bit of thickish wire (bit like fence wire really) and shoved it up into the sump, guddled around and brought out what I can only describe as 'black gloop' - it was disgusting.

It transpired that the car had been seen for its 1000 mile inspection, and in the subsequent 62,000 miles it hadn't even smelt a bottle of oil, let alone seen a dealer or a workshop. It required a complete engine strip, clean and rebuild with all new oil and filters, and to Nissan's credit it didn't require any major engine parts (I envisaged it needing new piston rings etc, due to the lack of lubricant); They got it going again, but I can tell you for sure that it was never ever properly right ever again; it was a tad gutless and unresponsive where as mine was quite rapid and lively.

The moral to this awfully long story? Sometimes the one that has got 120k on the clock will have been better cared for and be a better bet than the 'one lady owner' with 70k on the clock - - at the end of the day, it comes down to the individual car and how it feels to you on the day.

[Europa25]

Wow, interesting story fc, and goes to prove alot!

I'm going to have to follow my instinct and feel for the car, and take it from there.

There are alot of boxes I want ticked, especially with an eye to safety and future value.
If I'm not 100% certain I will say so.

If the clutch, gearbox, DPF, turbo, or major engine component were to fail - then I want a cast iron guarantee that as they are selling an ex-rental vehicle, this must be taken into account.
I'm sure the manufacturers warranty won't take care of undue wear and tear.

If things had been done properly in the first place, it would have been a whole lot better!

[Igloo]

I had a lease golf 1.6 tdi blue motion (59).

I looked after it like my own. When I had done 90k in it in 18 months, policy was to swap with another driver as they were on 100k policies.

The one I got given, was 15k miles. And drive like a vag of spanners.

I doubt it had ever done less than 4000 rpm before changing gear. And had been thrashed everywhere. Thankfully I left soon after getting it.

At our new place, we have 2 permedantly hired cars. These are OK. One is a passant estate from new (100 miles)

That's still as nice inside and engine wise as it was when it turned up. And because its done mainly motorway driving, there are no dpf issues etc.

[RicardoA4Sline]

I had a b6 bluemotion estate which I got for a steal from a main dealer it was a hertz car ( salesman said it was ex vw fleet! Grrrr!)

got over that, it had a few things I had done like replacement alloys before I collected it, had had a little bit of paint on the rear, and 12k miles 9 months.


ran it for 3 years and 30k miles with only 2 services and 2 tyres to pay for....it used no oil (1.9pd bm) and returned avg 58mpg without fuss


Luck of the draw I suppose.

[Igloo]

It could be ex VW fleet, as they could be leased out to hertz under another name.

Iirc our passat shuts says VW UK on it.

[Europa25]

Thanks Ricardo, that gives an extra bit of confidence, you just never know I guess!

I know the full basics of how a car works, but not the reality of treatment meted out to it .
This one has done 16,000 miles, but if say 500 miles were really dire treatment, would it have damaged valves, piston rings, the turbo, DPF, cambelt etc ? I am guessing so. Obviously parts of the transmission too.

You could buy an ex private car that was abused 100% of its life, I guess you never can be sure.

Thanks also Igloo. As far as my understanding from the salesman, The cars leased to Avis are owned by VW throughout.
He said by this method, if they are not returned to VW in good condition, they are asked to pay the outstanding, and I guess (as they often feature), then take these less desirable models to auction themselves.

It's taken 10 days to arrive so far and still not here, so waiting for the waiting game to end!

[Europa25]

I took collection of the car today.

They gave it a major service with many extras, and it runs to my mind, like new.

It's in perfect condition externally/internally, and has been valeted/supaguarded too.
I know, it's a chance, but we never know how any secondhand car has been driven in essence!

I saw it directly on arrival from AVIS, and drove it then, even then the average MPG was 57, suggesting it could have been driven sensibly. The condition suggests this too, zero damage to wheels etc.

See how it goes, Thanks again for all your comments and thoughts.

[Guest 2]

Thanks for the update.

Any pictures?

Hope you enjoy it! :)

[fat controller]

Good luck with the new wheels, hope you have many happy miles together.

And yes, pictures please!! :approve:

[Europa25]

Hi Chris, and fat controller ,

Cheers for your posts and sentiments with regards to the car, 250 miles already and love it!
Phone system is a dream, and already getting 60-75mpg, at speed.

Saw your requests for photos, so a couple I grabbed quickly earlier today....

All the best and thanks again.



1948719488

[fat controller]

:approve:

Very nice! VW are really good at updating their models without wrecking the good looks, that's for sure; your alloys look good too.

I imagine that the phone system is similar to the one that is in my A4 - and I have to agree, it is fantastic (even understands my Scottish accent!)