Not as good as i hoped.....ideas?

[Matt-h]

Hi all,

For the first time last last night i took my golf out for an enthusiastic drive.
:aargh4::drive:

I was a bit shocked as too how poor the handling is, it rolls bad, it nose dives under heavy braking and just doesnt inspire confidence at all.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to sort this?:1zhelp:

I am not the sort of person to thrash a car too much and still need it as a daily driver, so i need to be realistic with any modifications.

Whats been your past experience with getting the car to handle the way you want? pro's and cons

oh, and its a gt tdi 130 3door (53).

Many thanks

Matt

[dessimpson]

My experience exactly. I put it down to having an EVO beforehand but even now after 8 months i still hate the handling and the big heavy engine. I'm actively looking for another evo now but if i find a good cheap set of shocks & springs i may give that a go before abandoning it as I really love the economy (Scottish!!)

Keep us informed of what you do or get.

Des

[PPP Wagon]

And me! I put it down to havin a PPP Scooby beforehand! & mines a 4 motion!!!
Not as bad some say, but nothing compared to my scooby or mates evo.
It needs to be hammered to get the best out of the handling.
I think the handlings the main down side to the car, otherwise nice alrounder.
V6 sounds decent, quite quick (not scooby quick), alot alot alot more comfortable, the gf much prefers it, its a sleeper etc... Anywayz
bk to the point. As Des says shocks & springs / coilovers shud do the trick.

[Matt-h]

Cheers for the imput - Glad i'm not alone then.

Problem with putting the shocks/coilovers on is that i dont want to ruin the ride.

Where i live is full of crap roads.

Was thinking of eibach anti-roll bars (had them on a scirocco and were great!), but that wont stop the car from diving under braking.

Has anyone used a decent set of coilovers that doesnt make the ride impossible as a daily driver?

Matt

[ini]

The idea of coilovers is good, but most people only ever adjust them once, and never touch them again.

I would go for a slightly lower set of springs and shocks, 30-35mm for comfort, maybe a bit lower on the front, and a nice meaty anti-roll bar.

Not sure if a front or rear antiroll bar is best on a Golf, but it is probably 'rear' to stiffen up the front end. (combat understeer)

[bora(ing) nick]

Has anyone used a decent set of coilovers that doesnt make the ride impossible as a daily driver?

Matt

.....And so the search for a comfortable, yet sporty suspension continues.....

Problem is... people are used to different levels of comfort.

Good luck :beerchug:

Nick

[onzarob]

Don't put coilovers on, unless you have adversion to dentistry.

I found theese, good reviews, ie improved handling...not the usual..look great but my physio bill is so big i must sell them:p

http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/products/product_info.mhtml?id=435903

Koni FSD, not a bad price either.

[Matt-h]

Thanks for the feedback guys,

I'm not expecting to have suspension like a lexus, after all, that why i bought the 130.

Any particular brand shocks/coilovers to go for?

Eibach sell the anti-roll bar kits in pairs, so i assume its best to have both.

Maybe its worth matching the Shocks to the anti-roll bars?

Decisions decisions......i havent even started with the wheels yet:aargh4::aargh4::aargh4:


Matt

[Matt-h]

Thanks,

They do seem great, however i would need to change the springs as well, due to the shocks actually raising the ride height.

seen some eibach pro sport, this lowers the car by about 15mm with Koni FSD shocks.

The KW's would lower it by about 30mm with the Koni FSD's.

If i'm putting on slighly bigger VAG wheels, what would i be best to do?


Matt

[Super-G]

A mate had H&R springs. They were really smooth over bumps and only dropped the car a small amount.

In my experience the springs and shocks should be matched.

An Anti-roll bar will affect the body lean in the corner, shocks will change dive under braking.

[onzarob]

Thanks,

They do seem great, however i would need to change the springs as well, due to the shocks actually raising the ride height.

seen some eibach pro sport, this lowers the car by about 15mm with Koni FSD shocks.

The KW's would lower it by about 30mm with the Koni FSD's.

If i'm putting on slighly bigger VAG wheels, what would i be best to do?


Matt

Sorry but shocks don't change the ride height, springs do:confused:

I would put the wheels on first and then measure the distance from the centre to the arch. you can then judge the amount of drop you can have. remember though that the existing springs will have compressed a little in there lifetime, hence why some people lower there car and find it to be higher than they started!!

[Matt-h]

Thanks,

Makes sense with the ride height.

I would never of been able to get things in order without all of your help.

The plan is;

1. put on the anti-roll bars
2. bigger wheels
3. shocks and springs

Does that sound about right?

Cheers guys.

[ini]

If you are going to use lower/stiffer springs, i would wait and see if a thicker antiroll bar is needed.

For comfortable day to day driving, there is a sliding scale between spring stiffness and antiroll bar thickness.

If you used very very firm springs, you may even want to reduce the antiroll bar thickness.

In short, install the springs and wheels first.

[2manygolfbitz]

Cheers for the imput - Glad i'm not alone then.

Problem with putting the shocks/coilovers on is that i dont want to ruin the ride.

Where i live is full of crap roads.

Was thinking of eibach anti-roll bars (had them on a scirocco and were great!), but that wont stop the car from diving under braking.

Has anyone used a decent set of coilovers that doesnt make the ride impossible as a daily driver?

Matt
Hi Matt
the harsh ride you metion is due to the spring rate ,most suppliers of the coil over springs 2.5" type can supply them in different lengths and spring rates.
I have two sets ,here ,one is 14" and 225 lbs per inch and the other is 8.5 " and 185lbs which is very good for mk1 and ok on a mk2 but as the car you have is heavier, you may need more speak to demon tweeks they are very knowledgeable and as to the post that shocks will alter divng under braking this is totally wrong
the springs deal with compresion of the suspension,the shocks (hence the name shock absorber) dampen out the oscillation of the springs.
an added plus is the narrower spring platform for fitting of bigger wheels as there is more room
you can get the springs set up (alter the spring fitted length and comression )with a corner weight guage and even adjust for your weight on the drivers side will make the car handle better dynamically

eibach anti-roll bars are very good as well but if you fit these then maybe you should uprate to better quality and slightly firmer suspension bushes but be careful with powerflex some of the bush steel sleeve holes are too big for the bolts and can cause problems

koni sports adjustables are also a good buy and can give you further tweakability hope this helps
Cheers

[Gee]

I have the same problems in my golf 1.6, the handling is pathetic!

Im planning on getting some 18" alloys and new springs. I'm pretty certain that the wheels will help as i only have 14" on at the moment and the tyres are so thick they 'rollover' when cornering.

With a bigger wheelbase to improve surface contact area and lowered suspension that is bound to help the car stick to the road.

My dad has a GT TDI mk5 with 18's and it sticks like glue!

[Matt-h]

DOH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Already ordered roll bars before reading post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nevermind, i have previous experience with the roll bars and rate them, so would have got them anyway.

Thanks for all your help and advice guys, there is no way i could have gained any more knowledge without this forum.

I will speak to demon tweaks, i wasnt aware that you coould get different length and lbs for springs.

Thanks

Matt

[Ben]

maybe a bit late and slightly wayward here but... I had a mk2 Fiat punto which kept on suffering leaky shocks, maybe i was unlucky. I was recommended and did replace them with gas shocks, didn't change the springs or anything else and the handling was so much better. As an when my MK5 suffers i'll be putting gas shocks on it.

[Col]

Eibach pro springs and some nice gas dampers (Bilsteins) plus a bolt on rear ARB really sort the Golfs handling out and will also sort the wallowing. Lots cheaper than coilovers as well. Go for a Whiteline ARB loads cheaper the the Eibach or Neuspeed jobbies.

[Matt-h]

you should uprate to better quality and slightly firmer suspension bushes but be careful with powerflex some of the bush steel sleeve holes are too big for the bolts and can cause problems


What other brands of bushes are there?

Matt

[2manygolfbitz]

What other brands of bushes are there?

Matt

Have only had experience with two types powerflex and bugpak
I normally use bugpak an american company that have made beetle stuff since the 60's or 70's but they do excellent bush kits for the golf
I put a bugpac set on the now ex-wife's golf gti in 1995, in 2006 a mate had a problem with his powerflex wishbone kit, as his golf was going through bushes like it was going out of fashion.
1 set every 2 weeks! :zx11:he even took it to 5 different VW dealers and they said engine mount for definite, roll bar link , driveshaft ,those wishbones aren't genuine unless you fit original we won't touch it ,:mad:good job he ignored them all and waited for me to come back of holiday
Ended up having to go to Powerflex in person to prove where they had designed the bush incorrectly. someone there had measured the stainless steel sleeve that compresses around the bolt on a MK2 golf front wishbone REAR bush WITHOUT compressing it and their original bolt holes in the cadmiun plated sleeve for the center of the bush was 16mm
considering that the vw bolt is @12.5 mm
the freeplay was excessive to say the least.
anyway I dug out the set off my wifes old car that had sat under the bench for about 2 years after doing maybe 80/90k miles and stuck them on his car as a temporary measure.After he went on along trip :drive:he wouldn't let me have them back,they are still on his 2ltr 16v mk2 golf gti to this day
So 10 years use,some of it very very hard and heavily laden for a paltry £25 you can't argue with that
I will Pm you as i have a load of bushes left probably enough to do 6 or 7 cars and may have a set of bugpac in my garages.
:beerchug:

[Matt-h]

ok, an update.

My anti roll bars have arrived and i put my car on a ramp to fit them.

Problem is, it looks like the front subframe needs to come out to do it:aargh4::aargh4:

Has anyone been down this route, if so how complicated is it?

Also noticed that the rear doesnt actually already have a rear ARB, sounds ridiculous considering its a 130 gt tdi.

Was thinking, that if the subframe does need to come out, is there anything i should be doing at the same time ie, poly bushes or any other improvements.
I may as well get it done in one go instead of paying someone to drop it out again.

Any suggestions?

Matt

[2manygolfbitz]

Hi Matt


My anti roll bars have arrived and i put my car on a ramp to fit them.

Problem is, it looks like the front subframe needs to come out to do it:aargh4::aargh4:

NOT NECCESARY JUST DROP THE BACK TWO BOLTS PULL DOWN SLIGHTLY AND FIT THE NEW ANTI ROLL BARS (THAT IS IF THEY ARE REPLACEMENT ONES WITH A RAMP SHOULD TAKE LESS THAN AN HOUR

Has anyone been down this route, if so how complicated is it?

Also noticed that the rear doesnt actually already have a rear ARB, sounds ridiculous considering its a 130 gt tdi.

MOST REAR ANTIROLL BARS FOR MK2/3/4? ARE INSIDE THE V OF THE AXLE AND ARE OF THE TORSION BAR TYPE YOUR AFTER MARKET REAR SHOULD BOLT ONTO THE AXLE USING THE SHOCK MOUNTS USUALLY AND HAVE CLAMPS THAT FIT AROUND THE MAIN AREA OF THE AXLE BEAM

Was thinking, that if the subframe does need to come out, is there anything i should be doing at the same time ie, poly bushes or any other improvements.

YOU CAN FIT POLYURETHANE REPLACEMENT BUSHES OR REPLACE THE ORIGINAL FRONT SUBFRAME BUSHES BUT USUALLY IF NOT OIL CONTAMINATED SHOULD BE OK .WITH A RAMP AND SOME FAIRY LIQUID TO LUBE THE NEW BUSHES TO PUSH THEM ON SHOULD BE ABOUT 2 HRS START TO FINISH JUST DONT SUPPORT THE CAR USING ANY OF THE PARTS YOU NEED TO MOVE OR ANYTHING CONNECTED TO THEM IN OTHER WORDS WEIGHT OFF WHEELS AND SUPPORT BLOCKS UNDER THE CHASSIS RAILS AND FOR EASY ENGAGEMENT AT THE FRONT OF THE OUTER LINKS YOU MAY NEED TO RAISE THE WHEELS A BIT TO GET THE LINKS IN (MOTTO MAKE THE WEIGHT AND SIZE OF THE CAR WORK FOR YOU NOT AGAINST YOU!).

I may as well get it done in one go instead of paying someone to drop it out again.

Any suggestions?

Matt[/quote]

HOPE THIS HELPS

[Matt-h]

2manygolfbits,

Thanks very much, very, very helpful - genius i fact!

So have Powerflex sorted the problem withthe bushes fitting properly?

Matt