Best way to bleed brake and clutch fluid?

[aerotec]

Hi all,

Getting ready to tackle a list of service and repair issues on my 1.9tdi Avant. I need to bleed the brake fluid. I have done this on other cars using the old fashioned friend in the driver seat responding to "up & "down" commands but now I have moved to London I am lacking friends who are happy to get dirty, how dull!

So I am looking at getting a Power Bleed system to help me bleed the brakes myself. I seem to have 3 options and wondered what people thought or use?

Cheap
£4.95 on eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CAR-BRAKE-BLEEDING-KIT-BRAKE-CALIPER-FLUID-BLEEDER-/261126713797?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item3ccc5d71c5) is this bleed bottle that goes on the caliper bleed nipple and allows old fluid to be drawn back in to the caliper rather than air. Seems easy enough to use.

Mid Price
For £16.58 I can get the Gunson Eazibleed. (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gunson-G4062-Eezibleed-Kit/dp/B001KTFIWA/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1355018010&sr=1-1-catcorr) This takes pressure from a car tyre to work which is ok but a faf. However I read that the pressure won't be enough to bleed the clutch fluid?

Premium
£54.95 for the Sealey Power Bleeder. (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sealey-VS820-Clutch-Bleeding-System/dp/B000ROARTI/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1355013499&sr=8-1-fkmr1) Positive is that it is self-pumped so no need to use a car tyre. Also it claims to have enough pressure to work with ABS systems and bleed the clutch fluid.

Anyone used any of the above and recommend what is worth spending the cash on? I only service my own car so the Sealey would be pricey for something just used every couple of years but if it is the easiest to use then it is worth the spend. If I get one of the first two options is it possible to bleed the clutch fluid with someone pumping the clutch pedal as you can do with the brakes?

Thanks, Rich

[PaulF2.5TDi]

Beware if using a pressure bleeder!!

They are the best thing to use for brake and clutch bleeding, but you must be aware that you can burst your reservoir if you get excited.

I have the Gunson, and have used one since the late 80's! (with Cortina 5s' C/W void bush tool, Crasher :naughty: ) I find them perfectly good.

I did this on my Avant and found out from another forum that 10 psi is about the maximum the reservoir will take - quite a few of us had blown our bottles!!. DO NOT use 34 psi from your spare tyre unless you have a spare reservoir. Let the air out of the spare until you're down to about 10 psi.

I have done this a few times without problem, but some people had had much greif. I can't remember the correct bleeding order, but I would expect somebody will come along with it soon

[Alan02]

It is possible to do it yourself without the pressure bleeder idea. Just keep the fluid level topped-up above the minimum.
Start at rear furthest away from M/Cyl. then opposite rear. then front, furthest away from M/Cyl. then opposite. Clutch slave cyl is easy to get to from over the rear of the engine. You will have to pull the pedal back up after each depression, but dont panic as you will not feel any resistance on the pedal until the bleed nipple is closed.

[aerotec]

Thanks guys,

So the Gunson Eazibleed will do the job with the tyre dropped to 10psi. I thought ABS systems and clutches needed a higher pressure to push the fluid through?

Rich

[PaulF2.5TDi]

I've had no trouble on both A4s, I would think any pressure above ambient would be sufficient.

As Alan said, you can do it yourself. Get a length of rubber vacuum hose, stick a bolt up one end to block it. Then make a slit along it's lenght. Put the other end over your bleed nipple, loosen the nipple and pump away slowly. The slit will act as a one way valve letting the fluid out and stopping the air returning.

[aerotec]

Simple idea! I have just bought a kit that does the same on Amazon for £4.40. If I still lived near my father I would have done the above as that is where the garage full of odds and ends is but since moving to London I miss all the garage clutter! I would have had to buy some tubing so £4.40 for the kit is fine and I guess it will be easier to store in my toolbox than the pump reservoir kits. Good to know the old fashioned method still is the best!

Another quick question. Car is at 189k so I am doing the transmission oil too. Should I also do the glow plugs? I have had the car since 60k and it always starts easily so from what I read Glow Plugs are only needed if the car isn't starting easily. But I also read they should be changed every 40k miles?

[PaulF2.5TDi]

Simple idea! I have just bought a kit that does the same on Amazon for £4.40. If I still lived near my father I would have done the above as that is where the garage full of odds and ends is but since moving to London I miss all the garage clutter! I would have had to buy some tubing so £4.40 for the kit is fine and I guess it will be easier to store in my toolbox than the pump reservoir kits. Good to know the old fashioned method still is the best!

Another quick question. Car is at 189k so I am doing the transmission oil too. Should I also do the glow plugs? I have had the car since 60k and it always starts easily so from what I read Glow Plugs are only needed if the car isn't starting easily. But I also read they should be changed every 40k miles?

The rubber hose works fine most of the time, however if you have trouble, get the EziBleed.

As for the glow plugs, I'ma great believer in 'if it aint fxxxxd, don't fix it' - however if you do end up needing to change them, do them all at he same time. Check the ones you took off, and keep the working ones for spares.

[OddBallBoy]

It is possible to do it yourself without the pressure bleeder idea. Just keep the fluid level topped-up above the minimum.
Start at rear furthest away from M/Cyl. then opposite rear. then front, furthest away from M/Cyl. then opposite. Clutch slave cyl is easy to get to from over the rear of the engine. You will have to pull the pedal back up after each depression, but dont panic as you will not feel any resistance on the pedal until the bleed nipple is closed.

When I changed the fluid on my Passat, I looked up the bleed order. You'd have thought that it should be the furthest from the master cylinder first, ie NS rear, BUT the order shown was actually furthest from the ABS unit, ie OS rear first.
So the full order was:
OS Rear
NS Rear
OS Front
NS Front

Can't remember where I found this but it does make sense and as the Passat and the A4 are pretty much the same set up, you might want to check it out.

[aerotec]

Just a quick update. I hadn't got around to the fluid change but last week my car failed its MOT due to front brake performance differential. Essentially my FNS brake caliper was inoperative. I stripped it down and the caliper moved fine on the slide pins and the caliper retracted but pressing the pedal got no piston movement. I opened the bleed nipple and it took a couple of pumps on the brake pedal to get fluid through so somehow it had picked up an air lock. I cleaned up the caliper, re-copper greased everything including the slide pins and re-assembled and it worked fine after that. I cleaned up the offside too while I was at it.

I then fully bled the system to flush through new fluid and followed the bleed order oddballboy posted. Brakes work noticeable better now but I am surprised I didn't feel the car pull to one side if one caliper wasn't working. I just thought I had spongy brakes as it needed a fluid flush.

Thanks all for the input to this thread.

[Doctle Odd]

You can get pressure bleeders that have a hand pump, the tyre ones can blow the reservoir apart (experience). For the last couple of years I have been using a Halfords bleed kit Halfords Ireland | Europat Vizibleed Brake and Clutch Bleeding Kit (http://www.halfords.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_11101_catalogId_15551_productId_20 4703_langId_-1_categoryId_212549) . This really makes it easy just make sure you keep the reservoir topped up and NEVER clamp your hoses it can ruin them. I have a Sealey vacuum bleeder but I never use it they're pretty cheap but you need a compressor.

[Doc B]

Thanks for all this useful info. Just what I need to do next on my wife's b5 & I don't need to ask all the questions. Cheers!

[aerotec]

Only other info I can add is that the bleed nipples are meant to be 11mm. This was fine on the back but both front ones were weird with 10mm being too tight and 11mm too loose. I ended up hammering on a 10mm long socket and using that to loosen the nipple. Then lightly hammered on a open ended wrench so I could rotate the nipple to start/stop the flow. Strange as I have had the car since it was 3yrs old so not as if an aftermarket nipple has been fitted.