Tyre Noise

[John H]

I don't often contribute to forums but I've picked up some useful information over the years from them and wanted to share a recent experience hoping it may be useful to someone.

I bought my A7 3.0tdi S-Line FWD (61 plate, 2012) when it was around 9 months old, it has the standard 19" S-Line wheels with PZeros fitted. From the start I have been plagued by a noise intruding into the interior of the car, like a worn 'wheel bearing' sound from the front drivers side wheel, I've also heard it described as like the noise when you blow over the top of a bottle. It was evident from around 40mph and was pretty much constant but was more obvious on quieter road surfaces, it was loud enough to be heard over the radio and seriously detracted from an otherwise perfect car. The Dealer said the bearings were fine and that they couldn't hear anything abnormal when they drove the car (rubbish of course) I had noticed this noise during my original test drive of the car but thought it was the road surface as an earlier test drive of a similar car was very quiet with this noise definately not present.

Reading comments on various web sites I've now discovered that this issue appears to be fairly common with the new A6 and the A7 presumably because it's the same chassis and it may or may not be related to the 19" wheels rather than other sizes. No one seemed to have a definitive fix for it.

I changed the front tyres (they were at about 4mm) for new PZeros - no change, if anything worse - had the wheel alignment done - again no difference - moved front tyres to the back - again no difference. I managed to find a picture of the 1st car I test drove and noticed that it had Goodyear Eagles fitted so in desperation I changed the new PZeros for Goodyear Eagles and got them swopped to the front again, so I've now got Goodyears on the front and PZeros on the back.

The good news is that it is now like a different car, no 'wheel bearing noise' to drive me mad and a reduced level of road noise as well. It really has made a significant difference and the car is now as quiet inside as you'd expect from a car like this.

I've been through the pain of having to go back to the dealer and paying for 2 sets of new tyres so if anyone has this 'droning'/'worn wheel bearing' type noise then hopefully this may save them from the same experience. It seems that the new A6/A7 platform is very susceptable to tyre noise from certain tyres, maybe because of the aluminuim suspension set up?

John

[jk88]

Have a similar issue with excessive road noise on less than biliard like surfaces with an SE on 18" wheels I bought as a used car a few months ago. It also has PZeros fitted which are around 3mm front and 4mm rear now. Just ordered 4 Goodyear Eagle F1 A2s to be fitted next week. Will let you know if it makes a difference.

[John H]

Hope it works for you, if it does then it would seem to back up the theory that PZeros and the A7 are not a good match for some reason. I had PZero Rosso tyres on my last car, an A6 Avant, also with 19" wheels and there wasn't a problem.

[jbanfie]

I too have 19" standard s-line's on my Bi-Turbo, with P-Zero 255/40R19 100Y

From mytyres.co.uk these appear to be C rated for fuel consumption B for rain grip and 73db for noise.

Good things about mytyres is you can order by any field, so the quietest tyres are the Vredestein ULTRA SESSANTA at 67db, sadly these are E rated for fuel, but C for rain grip.

Perhaps the best compromise is the Michelin Pilot Sport PS2, C fuel, A grip and 70db, but these are pricey

My favourite the Hankook Ventus S1 Evo 2, 2 db noiser than the Michelin, but £70 a corner cheaper!!!

However you look at it, P Zero's will never be on my car again.

Your can waste an amount of time researching tyres with the new EU labels!!!!

[John H]

I'm always a bit dubious about 'official figures' - look at the official mpg figures as an example! Like you I looked through all the EU ratings but decided it was best to go on my experience with the test drives. It would be really useful to have comments from other A7 owners about their experience of different tyres and the A7. The Hankooks sound good value & I expect you'll be getting through tyres pretty quickly with your Bi-Turbo!

[jk88]

So Goodyears F1s fitted yesterday, have just been out for a short trip, around 20 miles. First impressions are that they are night and day better than the PZeros in the road noise department, which probably says more about the PZeros. Will update again once I covered a few hundred miles over a wider variety of surfaces, but I'm already fairly confident that the car has been transformed.

[robbyg]

same here. unhappy with my pzeros noise. will never fit them again. Am surprised audi fit them really, i took my car back reporting bad wheel bearings, mechanic claimed he couldnt hear anything. 6k miles later they got much quieter.
Had good year F1 on previous cars, was very happy with them, will probably get them again in 20k miles from now.

[@mark]

I had some new boots fitted to mine yesterday. Like you, I couldn't wait to get the PZeros off.

In my case a set of Continental Sport Contact 2s have been fitted (as the dealer was footing the bill I didn't have the option of the Goodyears this time round) but again the difference is night and day. On the way home the ride was near silent.

So next time round (when I am paying for my own tyres) I might be tempted to give the new Sport Contact 5s a try

On a side note I have noticed on cars where tyre noise is higher, this only tends to be the case when driving in the UK. When driving across Western Europe I have found tyre noise to be greatly reduced on many of the roads over their so assume their surfacing methods must be different. Might be why this sort of thing is not spotted in testing

[robbyg]

JK88, have you got an update for us? F1s still recommended?

I have done 9k miles so far and pzeros tyres almost good as new, i am almost wishing them to wear out, though they are much much quieter now than when new.

[ASeven]

I've had 2 punctures on my P Zeros, resulting in total tyre loss on both occasions (full scale blow outs). They did a decent job of allowing the car to stop without flipping me into a hedge or destroying the rims, but I can't help but feel that this may be a P Zero issue. My old Alfa Spider has P Zeros, and I was plagued by punctures in that, too.

I've now got F1s on the front of my A7, and as others have reported, they're light years ahead.

[a7lap1]

Hello,

I know this is an old thread but I am so glad I have found it!
I have had my 2011 A7 S-line Quattro for around 3 months now. I love the car, its near perfect but I cannot stand the tyre noise generated from the P Zeros. I complained about it to the dealer when I picked it up and they replaced the bearings and claimed it had vastly improved things! On the drive home I can honestly say there was no difference in the noise.

I am definitely going to replace the front 2 tyres purely down to the noise, I have read the above but just wanted ask if anyone has any updates? Are Goodyear F1s still the recommend tyre of choice to reduce that terrible drone!
Thanks,

[jk88]

I swapped the PZeros to F1s and found it improved tyre noise considerably. I believe Dunlop is also a good choice for low noise. I think the A7 is very sensitive to the road surface in terms of tyre noise, just driven to Le Mans and back last weekend and the car was whisper quiet on the super smooth surface of the French motorways.

[Furillo]

I'm putting a new set of Goodyear F1s on next week replacing Bridgestones. Dodgy back means can't check but I'm assuming (hoping) that Audi store the locking wheel nut in the boot with the spare. True or somewhere else?

[jk88]

Correct, it's under the spare wheel.

[Furillo]

Many thanks

[vespa]

Hello guys,
I have started to notice a noise akin to a wheel bearing on my Passat 2.0TDi Highline (17" wheels with P Zeros) I phoned the VW garage that looks after the car (it's done 17600 miles) They felt that without looking at the car it maybe tyres and to swop them around. Sadly age is against me here and that is now a sod of a job for me. After reading this thread about Pirellis it has made me wonder if this is my actual problem and that VW/Audi are aware as I have since seen many Passats with Continentals fitted new on the forecourts. That may be just coincidence as I am sure that wheel and tyre combinations are bought en bloc by VW. The car is due for service soon and cambelt etc change on age rather than mileage, so they will check it all then. Fronts have 4.5mm on and rears have 6mm on so I would like to change them all at 2.5mm-3mm. There is no uneven wear or wobble in the steering. It is just the drone noise that annoys me so much.

[Scott K]

Hello guys,
I have started to notice a noise akin to a wheel bearing on my Passat 2.0TDi Highline (17" wheels with P Zeros) I phoned the VW garage that looks after the car (it's done 17600 miles) They felt that without looking at the car it maybe tyres and to swop them around. Sadly age is against me here and that is now a sod of a job for me. After reading this thread about Pirellis it has made me wonder if this is my actual problem and that VW/Audi are aware as I have since seen many Passats with Continentals fitted new on the forecourts. That may be just coincidence as I am sure that wheel and tyre combinations are bought en bloc by VW. The car is due for service soon and cambelt etc change on age rather than mileage, so they will check it all then. Fronts have 4.5mm on and rears have 6mm on so I would like to change them all at 2.5mm-3mm. There is no uneven wear or wobble in the steering. It is just the drone noise that annoys me so much.

Get them to swap your tyres front for back and see if that helps. It will also help even the wear if you want to change them at the same time.

[Furillo]

Quick update from me after 2 weeks with the Goodyear F1s (having replaced the original Bridgestones). Massive improvement across the board. First up much quieter. Noticed the reduced noise levels minute I drove her back from the garage. Ride has improved and far more cosseting. High grip levels in the dry. Couple of heavy summer downpours highlighted great levels of grip in the wet. Have to say impressive tyre. Will see how they do re wear and tear. Note I did have the tracking electronically checked and aligned which showed 3 wheels needed minor adjustments so this would have help.

[vespa]

UPDATE....
I am taking my car in for the VW agent to look at it next week.(4th onwards) I have just come back from Devon and the noise appears worse. I am 100% convinced it is a worn wheel bearing now at just over 18000 miles. The last wheel bearings I replaced (when I was able) were in my MG Maestro 2.0EFi at 70,000 miles and a Wolseley 1600 at 85000 miles. I hope that this is not the norm. To add insult to injury the rear light cluster of LED's is showing signs of failure, again!

[trigy]

I drive an A7 with 255/40-19 GY Eagle F1's. The tyre noise has become an issue in the past month or so. The tyres have 4mm and 5mm on them. When driving on smooth surfaces, the car is dead silent but as soon as the surface is not smooth, the front tyres start making the same type of "bearing" noise described above. And believe me, in Tallinn Estonia the roads are not that smooth. Months of driving with studded tyres in the winter takes its toll on the roads :) It has not always been like this so I recon it has to do with tyre wear. So even GY Eagle F1's will start making noise eventually.

Now I have to start thinking which tyres to get next. Eagle F1 A2's are one option. I have read that ContiSportContact 5's are also very quiet. Any suggestions?

[M1tchy]

I've just replaced my factory fitted Yokohama advant sport tyres with Pirelli P Zeros. To be honest I can't tell the difference. They Yokohamas were really expensive to replace and my local dealers said they were a very sticky tyre but wore quickly.

I don't drive like a maniac so will never get anywhere near their maximum grip levels but on the noise front I think the pirellis are marginally quieter.

Not had the pirellis in the wet yet so can't compare there, but again I wouldn't be pushing the tyre so as long as I don't skid off at sensible speeds I would have much to grumble about with any tyre.


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[vespa]

I have a t present Pirelli P zero rosso fitted from the factory. I have studied all the makes of tyres and they are nearly all 71/72 dcb noise rating as per the EU. Only Dunlop Sport Maxx are less at 67. I am however going to try Pirelli Cinturato P7 blue. They are the same noise rating but A for fuel ans A for wet grip. I have looked at manyne w Passats and they are mostly fitted with Continental conti 5. The funny thing about the latter is that the big players here in the UK are up to £200 per set of 4 dearer than the supermarket ASDA They are ordered through ASDA and fitted at mostly Halford outlets or Arnold Clark. The price includes fitting, balance, valve and disposal of old casing. New tyre testing in Auto express puts my choice of Pirelli 3rd but the top two makes Dunlop and Goodyear do not make my tyre size (yet) in those tested. I have consindered Dunlop Sport Maxx and Conti 5's but with the Pirelli coming in at the same price range I am going for those as the Pirellis on the car have worn so well. 18500 miles and 6mm on the rear and 4mm on the front so I reckonanother 8000 miles or so left in them. However I will probably get rid of them in the spring due to age and minor cracking showing near the tread and sidewall due to age and use.

[trigy]

I have also been thinkin of Nokian Z line and Vredestein Ultrac Vorti. Both have done fairly well in tests regarding cabin noise. Even better than GYEF1A2, CSC5 and MPSS. Anyone have any experience from these two under an A7 or A6?

[MarkTM]

I've driven on most all major brands of tyre with the exception of Bridgestone and have to say that my fave of all time thus far are the Michy Pilot Super Sports fitted to my C6 currently. Albeit in 245/45/18, but at £600 for all 4 fitted t'was a steal :D ;) :)

Second Uniroyal RS2's = 26k miles (Jaguar)
Third GYGSD3 = 30k miles (Jaguar)

[trickyshaw5]

John

I've had exactly the same problem with my A6 C7 on 20" rotors - I've changed my front tyres to Dunlop Sport Maxx's and have seen a slight improvement - I'm going to try the Goodyears as this is driving me nuts and I do on average 200 miles a day !!!!!!

I'll let you know how I get on - or failing that I'm going back to 18"s like i had on my all road and they were whisper quiet.

[Furillo]

Three months in with Goodyear F1s and found them to be excellent and far quieter than original Bridgestones. Car is a peaceful place now. However, I'm on 19s and specifically wanted the SE non sport suspension.

[trigy]

I have now tested four different tires (235-255, profile: 35-50) with different rim diameters 18-20 and the droning is always there. I'm pretty sure the droning noise from my A7 is coming from the suspension. There has been suggestions that aluminium used in A6/A7 suspension can't damp the resonances and that the ride is optimized for smooth asphalt. But in my case, the droning hasn't always been there. It started after my car was lifted up at the dealers. I noticed the droning the minute I drove away. My theory is that some bushing or other part of the suspension got damaged and now allows tyre vibration to resonate to the chassis. Of course I went back and the dealer checked the suspension but they couldn't find anything. Now does someone have any clue what could be checked? What would be the obvious routes of resonances from the wheel to the chassis?

[Scott K]

Perhaps if one of the rubber bushes has been damaged and is now letting metal touch metal in certain circumstances. Could be very hard to trace without taking the suspension apart!

[Moogie]

I have also been thinkin of Nokian Z line and Vredestein Ultrac Vorti. Both have done fairly well in tests regarding cabin noise. Even better than GYEF1A2, CSC5 and MPSS. Anyone have any experience from these two under an A7 or A6?

Just had a set of Vredestein Ultrac Vorti R's fitted a few weeks ago, and can highly recommend. Very grippy, smooth and quiet, even though on paper, the spec sheet says that road noise would be slightly worse than the Dunlop SP Sport Maxx GT's I've just worn out that came on the car. I got 21k miles from the Dunlops, so hoping the Vredestein last as long.

[FrankV]

I put Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2's on my A7 SE 18" last year and have done about 8K on them. They have been fine up until recently, but now I have a loud drumming noise proportional to road speed and most noticeable below 40mph as a distinctive drumming sound and as the speed gets higher in turns into more of a constant drone. Dealer says it is the tyres, indicating some saw-toothing on the edges. Well I have to say the saw-toothing is very slight but before changing tyres (they are hardly half worn) I thought I'd get the alignment checked out. Had this done this morning on a Hunter and front was spot on but the rear was a little out. The tyre guy said the wear was actually pretty good and even. Have had the alignment adjusted and also asked them to swap front to rear just to see if the swap will change the noise. It may be my imagination, but sounded noisier on the way back. Will check it out on more familiar local roads over the next few days and if it is noisier then will bite the bullet change out the tyres as the current noise is giving me a headache! If it is the same, then not sure what to do next. Tyres are not cheap but guess I'll not get the dealer to take the problem more seriously unless I get new boots and the noise is still there. Car is out of warranty now but only done 24K miles, so will be rather miffed if a bearing has knackered itself already!

Anyone done higher mileage of the Eagle F1's and noticed any change? They were fine up until recently - assuming my problem is with the tyres.

[Scott K]

If it's the bearing, you will find the noise gets louder and quieter as you corner.

[FrankV]

If it's the bearing, you will find the noise gets louder and quieter as you corner.
Yes, I already checked for that. But supposing it is a drive-line bearing - diff, prop.?

[vespa]

I think that when most makes get to about 5-6mm then the noise starts on these cars. I am still convinced that my Passat had a bearing problem as it wandered on some roads as if with a worn bearing or trackrod end. The dealer and tyre specialist both said there was no wear in any parts. My new Jaguar XE R Sport is extremely surefooted

[FrankV]

I think that when most makes get to about 5-6mm then the noise starts on these cars. I am still convinced that my Passat had a bearing problem as it wandered on some roads as if with a worn bearing or trackrod end. The dealer and tyre specialist both said there was no wear in any parts. My new Jaguar XE R Sport is extremely surefooted What do you mean by "these cars"? I have had many Audi's over the years, including an A6 V8, and not come across this issue before with tyres from new to fully worn. Seeing that tyres only start out at 8mm, for them to fail at 6mm is outrageous!
There are no wandering or other bad symptoms, just very well planted as quatros are, smooth and very comfortable - attributes I could certainly not apply to my previous V8 Jag XF which rode like a track prepared car and was far too tail happy!

Anyway, have just been out on a 10 mile round trip on familiar local roads and pretty sure it is now worse since the wheel swap around this morning, so seems like a bad tyre. All looks ok on the outside (both inner and outer) and also the rims are ok, so wondering if an internal problem. Guess the next step is to bite the bullet with another tyre change, certainly will not be GY Eagles! May try Continental SC5.

[vespa]

Thank you for your reply about my comments. You are obviously an ardent VW Audi fan. Good luck in your choice of cars.

[FrankV]

You are obviously an ardent VW Audi fan. Good luck in your choice of cars.Not particularly, I have had many brands from Ford to Mercedes. All have had their good and bad traits, right now the A7 is easily the best compromise so far. The XF had a great engine, good styling and finish, but poor seats and ride. I do have the XE on my radar for looking at next time I switch, but it will need to be comfortable (or the better half will block it!) and a good petrol engine. Not happy with touchscreens - in any car - as they are too much of a distraction to use. With the Audi MMI you can do most things by feel while concentrating on the road ahead, or voice but I can never remember the required commands!

Good luck with your XE and would good to hear an unbiased report on how you find it after some healthy miles on the clock.

[MarkTM]

will need to be comfortable (or the better half will block it!)

That's so nice of her to pay for your next car...never met one of those! :biglaugh:

[FrankV]

That's so nice of her to pay for your next car...never met one of those! :biglaugh:No, the "paying" doesn't work that way. If I get something too uncomfortable then I pay for it - in complaints!

Anyway, to get back on topic, just had all four wheels put on the balancer and 3 of the tyres are not very round. Rims are fine. No real explanation for why this should be (the car hasn't been standing in one spot for a long time) so have ordered new tyres which are planned to be fitted Tuesday morning,will report back then.

[MarkTM]

Usually only happens if they've been stored incorrectly or else a manufacturing fault.

They usually are date coded, so you could check that and rule out the former.

[FrankV]

They are date coded 2014, which is when they were fitted. What is puzzling is why they have just become noisy after about 8K miles. Even the tyre places are perplexed by this. At the recommendation of the tyre place, going back to the Pirelli P Zero in AO as they were the original factory fit, will see what transpires.

[FrankV]

New tyres turned out to my waste of £636 as probably a wheel bearing after all. Got the new boots this morning and it did nothing. Drove straight back to the dealer and now they agree it is likely a wheel bearing. Booked in for next week, hope they go easy on the bill given they gave the wrong advice in the first place. Very miffed right now as I'd told them I thought it was a bearing but they insisted after a test drive it was tyres.

[damtom85]

Out of curiosity, Did u ask for price for parts and labour?

[FrankV]

I'm going to ask for that before they do the work, but first they need to put it on the ramp and check to see which bearing it actually is. When I mentioned how miffed I was about wasting my money replacing half worn tyres (probably not even half worn) they did mention about a "good will gesture" so I didn't push them on the actual cost at the time, thought I'd wait for a full diagnosis. The car has only done 24K miles and only a few months out of warranty, so hope they will be reasonable about it. Unfortunately the two guys I dealt with last week were not there today, one has just gone on a two week holiday!

EDIT: Anyone know how much a front wheel bearing change should cost? I say front because they think it might be the front offside.

[MarkTM]

Anyone know how much a front wheel bearing change should cost? I say front because they think it might be the front offside.

I know for my A6 C6 they are £123.44 (inc) plus £151 (inc.) for fitting from my main dealer, and believe it's the same bearing for the A6 as A7.

[FrankV]

I know for my A6 C6 they are £123.44 (inc) plus £151 (inc.) for fitting from my main dealer, and believe it's the same bearing for the A6 as A7.Thanks for the numbers, will come in useful when "negotiating" - if there will be a chance for any!

[FrankV]

Problem resolved - confirmed to be nsf wheel bearing. Car was coming up to an oil change service so they offered a goodwill fix of the bearing if I had my service done with them. Very fair deal and made up for their initial wrong diagnosis leading to me needlessly replacing a set of less than half worn tyres and the costs before that of having the originals inspected, re-balanced and swapped around.

[Scott K]

Good result. Pity you didn't have the part worn tyres!