VP44 Pump

[audia4lyn]

As in my other posts I am still having starting problems. I have checked most of the possibilities to the best of my abilities and come to the conclusion that the vp44 injection pump is at fault! I have replaced this pump when I had it reconditioned by P.B. Asher three years ago, so I know full well what it entails. My question is, are these pump married to the car or can a get a pump off same model , engine code (2.5tdi AFB) and not mess around with Vag re-coding! Or even better, does anyone know where there is a second hand pump.
Thanks.

[adamss24]

AFB does not need coding, i would check timing first as if it was a duff pump it would not start at all and when it would it would sound like a bag of nails !

[Crasher]

I agree, the VP44 does not normally cause starting problems, as Chris says, check the Commencement Of Injection first.

[audia4lyn]

thanks for that, if I put in the timing locking kit, would that check it?

[PaulF2.5TDi]

No, you MUST use VCDS or similar (if there is similar) to check the timing dynamically.
If you don't have VCDS, have a look on the map to see who is near you to help. Unless RossTech has changed VCDS Lite, you can't use the Timing Function for the 2.5TDI unless you have the full version. It is a lot harder to time by figures alone, although it's possible. E-bay copies don't work for timing as you need the Basic Settings function.

Setting the pins only give a basic timing setting, the computer brings it in spot on.

You can also check your advance solenoid at the same time.

[ametlib]

No, you MUST use VCDS or similar (if there is similar) to check the timing dynamically.
If you don't have VCDS, have a look on the map to see who is near you to help. Unless RossTech has changed VCDS Lite, you can't use the Timing Function for the 2.5TDI unless you have the full version. It is a lot harder to time by figures alone, although it's possible. E-bay copies don't work for timing as you need the Basic Settings function.

Setting the pins only give a basic timing setting, the computer brings it in spot on.

You can also check your advance solenoid at the same time.

Sorry PaulF, have to disagree with you about VCDS lite . Having an AFB without CAN-BUS, the threadstarter will do just fine with VCDS lite. Timing
by figures is just as easy as timing by graphs. ( and I might add, in many cases, more reliable)

[Crasher]

The the VEP 4 cylinder I use the pretty graph, on the 6 cylinder I use the numerical display, I find it clearer.

[audia4lyn]

Thanks for the replies,
once in basic setting, what do I look for? I took the inlet clear pipe and the return pipe off the filter last night but no suction from the VP44, could incorrect timing cause this? I was thinking more like a failed low pressure vane pump in the VP44, but once I get it running (using a hand pump on the inlet clear pip and an injector loosened) it has plenty of suction and it will run perfectly and restart on a few cranks until its left for hours and then back to square one!
Thanks.

[PaulF2.5TDi]

You are, of course, both correct.

It is perfectly possible to use either block 0 or 04 on Basic Settings and check the figures as per the ElsaWin spec - there is no graph on the VAG 1551.

However, if you are not up to speed with VCDS/VP44 timing, I believe it is much easier to click a graph and set it between the lines than risk messing up figures. VCDS Lite didn't have a AFB selection when I had it a couple of years ago, so if you were going to use the graph, it may not be of use. I think the licensed copy of VCDS Lite will allow Basic Settings, but the unlicensed version can't .
You cannot use just Measuring Block as the advance solenoid is in operation adjusting the timing( it's switched on and off every 10 secs in Basic Settings)

I suspect I didn't put my thoughts across properly. (What was that I was saying about native english speakers in another thread???? :blackeye: )

[ametlib]

Thanks for the replies,
once in basic setting, what do I look for? I took the inlet clear pipe and the return pipe off the filter last night but no suction from the VP44, could incorrect timing cause this? I was thinking more like a failed low pressure vane pump in the VP44, but once I get it running (using a hand pump on the inlet clear pip and an injector loosened) it has plenty of suction and it will run perfectly and restart on a few cranks until its left for hours and then back to square one!
Thanks.

Could look like your pump is sucking in air. Have seen in in German forums that there is an o-ring that tends to become hard and let in air.
Its placed on the screw that holds the arrow-shaped little plate.

[ametlib]

You are, of course, both correct.

It is perfectly possible to use either block 0 or 04 on Basic Settings and check the figures as per the ElsaWin spec - there is no graph on the VAG 1551.

However, if you are not up to speed with VCDS/VP44 timing, I believe it is much easier to click a graph and set it between the lines than risk messing up figures. VCDS Lite didn't have a AFB selection when I had it a couple of years ago, so if you were going to use the graph, it may not be of use. I think the licensed copy of VCDS Lite will allow Basic Settings, but the unlicensed version can't .
You cannot use just Measuring Block as the advance solenoid is in operation adjusting the timing( it's switched on and off every 10 secs in Basic Settings)

I suspect I didn't put my thoughts across properly. (What was that I was saying about native english speakers in another thread???? :blackeye: )

This time, agree:D

[audia4lyn]

Where is this arrow shaped plate on the VP44? It could very well be air getting into the pump.
thanks.

[audia4lyn]

Where is this arrow shaped plate on the VP44? It could very well be air getting into the pump.

[ametlib]

[QUOTE=audia4lyn;764760]Where is this arrow shaped plate on the VP44? It could very well be air getting into the pump.[/QUOTE

You'll find it at the pumps left side ( cars left), near the pumps front. Not all pumps have this arrow- shaped plate, but they all have the screw, it's a rather large torx.
According to the Germans, this is a rather common fault.

BTW. You have checked the leak off pipes ?

[PaulF2.5TDi]

Mistake

[ametlib]

Mistake

He, he, not so sure about that.
The threadstarter mentioned in his other post that the car wouldn't start if standing for 10 hrs. or more. That is the most typical sympthom for air intruding the fuelsystem.
He also mentioned that the clear pipe is full of fuel, yes thats normal, even if the pump is full of air! When the engine starts ( after bleeding) he sees air coming through the clear pipe.
In my opinoin his problem is air in fuelsystem, eighter from the fueltank,leakoff pipes or from the pump itself. Have nothing to do with the timing ( can't bleed that problem away)

[audia4lyn]

Thanks for all of your feedbacks, it’s all food for thought. It might be time for another car (anything without this pump setup) as I don’t want to risk buying a replacement VP44 until I am absolutely sure it’s causing the problem, might sell as is.
Thanks again.

[PaulF2.5TDi]

He, he, not so sure about that.
The threadstarter mentioned in his other post that the car wouldn't start if standing for 10 hrs. or more. That is the most typical sympthom for air intruding the fuelsystem.
He also mentioned that the clear pipe is full of fuel, yes thats normal, even if the pump is full of air! When the engine starts ( after bleeding) he sees air coming through the clear pipe.
In my opinoin his problem is air in fuelsystem, eighter from the fueltank,leakoff pipes or from the pump itself. Have nothing to do with the timing ( can't bleed that problem away)

No, I posted something, then couldn't delete it, so changed wording to mistake! (Sorry for confusion!)