Which Glow Plugs for 3.0TDI (BMK)

[six_or_out]

Hello folks,

I know there are two types of glow plugs (ceramic and metal), does anyone know which ones are the correct type for the 3.0TDI (BMK) engine? I looked on ETKA and couldn't find a definitive answer.

Thanks!

[gupsterg]

Only info I can supply is ...




A -
Ceramic glow plugs are colour-coded with a “white seal”




B -
Metal glow plugs are colour-coded with a “red seal”



Other info:




Mixed installation of ceramic glow plugs and metal glow plugs on the same engine is not permissible.





The software of the engine control unit is specifically adapted to either the ceramic or the metal glow plugs, so it is important to install the correct type.




As you got VCDS if you check adaptation in module [1] does balloon appear telling codes etc...

I wouldn't adjust anything only look maybe post screenie..

I can't find info on this and can't check on my car at mo..

But PM to A8 Tech may reveal VW AUDI Forum - VWAF (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/member.php?11915-a8-tech)

[six_or_out]

Yeah I saw that too, I was wondering if there was a way of telling which ones I need without removing one. Last time I had glow plugs replaced by Audi, one broke off which I hear is a common issue that they have when removing them. Unfortunately I can't find the invoice to see if it had part numbers or details of whether they were metal or ceramic ones. Coincidentally, its the same glow plugs that I think now need replacing...

[gupsterg]

As not mechanic excuse my terminology...

The coloured seal is above the nut/section of glow plug the socket would go on so should be visible before removal...

My missus gone out with car can't look at mo, if get chance will try to view on mine for my info...


...Last time I had glow plugs replaced by Audi...

If you phone them they may be able to tell you...

[sparker]

I have replaced a couple of glow plugs on my 3.0tdi 2006 171KW (if that is BMK, not sure). Did some research first.

The glow plugs in this engine are manufactured for Audi by BERU. Don't use any other make they will not last!

Beru part type GE 115. Part no.0 100 266 040. They should be available from Euro car parts under part no. 438 44 0015 I believe (much cheaper than Audi ringed ones).

Have a look on Buru site for the information needed.

These have white steel nut and thread.

I'm sure you will find them, if not let me know.

[rafletcher]

Following on from Sparkers thread, on the Eurocarparts site you can enter your reg into it, then select the components you're looking for - engine > glow plugs > view product. There you will see the VIN number "from" line to cross-check against your car.

Must be one of the cheapest Audi parts available!!!

[markellis]

Be careful with Eurocarparts cross- check ! Iv had some mixed results with Brake Pads, Disks & filters. All changed on the desk but it is a hassle if its not right first time. Best to rock up with the old part if you can or get one of each of the new options and take the ones you don't use back.

[snapdragon]

Thanks for the warning. I just ordered some from ECP, great price with the 25% off code.

[fieldy]

Thanks for the warning. I just ordered some from ECP, great price with the 25% off code. They specify 438440055 which is 4.4V so clearly wrong.

Hi Snapdragon,

Just about to order these off ECP, they specify Beru plugs (code: 438440015) @ £9.90, all the information they provide seems to be correct. Just noted your comment above about 4.4v and wondered how you got on with the ones your ordered as the info on ECP still states 4.4v?

Many thanks

[sparker]

Hi Fieldy,

The part no. you have there is the same as the Beru item from ECP which I fitted to my ASB 3.0tdi. If they are the same for your engine then I can confirm they work perfectly in my car and where identical too the originals bar the Audi rings. I cross referenced these on the Beru website to check they where correct for my ASB engine. They have worked perfectly since fitting.

[fieldy]

Hi Fieldy,

The part no. you have there is the same as the Beru item from ECP which I fitted to my ASB 3.0tdi. If they are the same for your engine then I can confirm they work perfectly in my car and where identical too the originals bar the Audi rings. I cross referenced these on the Beru website to check they where correct for my ASB engine. They have worked perfectly since fitting.

Cool thanks. Website is a good shout i will check that out now.

[gupsterg]

The white seal ones are Bosch which are ceramic...

The red seal ones are Beru which are metal...

The car ECU will be programmed for one or the other... you can not mix or change from one to the other without software change in ECM...

The seal colour is easily visible if you remove the elec.plug off glow plug...

Damage can occur to glow plug if wrong one fitted... which in turn can damage engine...

[bops6]

What symptoms should I look out for if my glow plugs are on there way out?
If I don`t use the car for a day or so then start it, it will take up to a second more of cranking than when warm before firing then very slight missfire for a second then clear and be perfect there after.

[Cwizard]

How do we go about replacing them? I couldn't find anything on the net explaining it. Do i need any specialised tools for the job or just some basic ones?

[gupsterg]

I always thought glow plugs only came into play if very cold or for initial starting... but after looking at more stuff yesterday they have PRE Glow... AFTER glow...

Yesterday I started car with VCDS hooked up and looking at MVB 12 in engine module... Link:- 3.0 TDi MVB's Thread (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?102358-audi-3-0tdi-engine-measurement-blocks)

You can see some of the glow plug info in this SSP... page 71... Link:- EU5 3.0TDi SSP (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=3000cc%20v6%20tdi%20audi.pdf&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.1stcallhosting.com%2Ftech%2Fa udi%2Findex.php%3Fdir%3DEngine%252F%26download%3D3 000cc%2BV6%2BTDI%2BAudi.pdf&ei=-auKULnKGIO-0QXUz4D4Bg&usg=AFQjCNFjF4zJXiJPAdBS05F8PKrK_KHJrg&cad=rja) this SSP is for the facelift engine some things differ others not...

The pre face lift one is this Link:- SSP 350 (http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_350.pdf)& google for SSP 325...

[sparker]

Bops6, The symptoms with mine car were as you describe. One or more glow plugs not heating the diesel means the cylinders effected don't fire up from cold as they should. So engine slightly slower to fire up and brief smoke of unburnt diesel. When engine is hot the engine fires up OK as diesel is warmed by the engine heat. VCDS shows you which glow plugs are the culprits or change them all.

[sparker]

Cwizard,

Changing them is OK but there is a chance of snapping them off. They can be prone to breaking off as you remove them.

Deep socket is needed, 10mm I think with joint and extension (thanks Gup). Also some anti-seize grease to help replacement and future removal.

Remove engine cover and locate the six plugs. If you have an airline, blow out any dirt from around the plugs. I spayed the threads with WD40 (cold engine) and left to soak. Did this on a couple of nights to get good penetration. Don't know if this helps but easy to do.

Run engine to warm up the engine. This helps removal as the aluminium heads expand.

Remove plug caps. The glow plugs I removed didn't need anything else removing but a couple of them might not have such good access.

Carefully undo them with even torque, no sudden snapping movement. They should come out fine.

Replace the new ones to correct toque again do not over tighten them. I'm sure there is some help on Beru website about torques for these.

Hope that helps. There is other help on the Google, might be other tips and pointers.

[gupsterg]

I'm thinking at some point to do mine as they seem low cost item and good to replace if they are being used until coolant reach (x) temp/time elapsed...

A question for fieldy/bops6 are you guys replacing because of faults or preventive measure or just little misfires etc?

Hi sparker... did you do yours when you did the swirl manifolds?

I saw the tool used in service guide is just a deep socket with universal joint and extension bar is that what you used?

[sparker]

Hi Gup,

I had replaced these before the manifolds. I got a full set but just replace the faulty two at the time. Then replace a third when I got another fault show up on VCDS when I purchased that a year later. I had no problems with doing them.

[gupsterg]

Cheers for info Sparker :beerchug:... I think I gonna leave mine till a fault show or if get compression test done on engine then get new fitted...

If I do at home I will use my mates air compressor plus my home made tool... Link:- vacuum adapter (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?133290-A6-C6-injector-PROBLEM-Replacement-refurbished-injectors-possible&p=769729#post769729)

Here is a guide on the net... Link:- Removing and installing glow plugs (http://elsaweb.spaghetticoder.org/doc/A.en-GB.A00.5A60.07/33182096/3)

Please ref headings as torque differs for ceramic vs metal...

I will double check info when my other PC back online...

[fieldy]

I'm thinking at some point to do mine as they seem low cost item and good to replace if they are being used until coolant reach (x) temp/time elapsed...

A question for fieldy/bops6 are you guys replacing because of faults or preventive measure or just little misfires etc?

Hi sparker... did you do yours when you did the swirl manifolds?

I saw the tool used in service guide is just a deep socket with universal joint and extension bar is that what you used?

Mine is purely preventative. I always let the glow light go out before cranking and she always starts after two or three turns and i dont get any spluttering. Occasionally the Mrs doesnt do this and the car cranks a few more times before biting but is otherwise ok.

I made my mind up to order them as i read that article that Cwizard posted a few days ago about glow plug bits going stray in the engine. I have no record in the file of mine being changed and i dont believe it is mentioned in routine maintenance therefore im sure previous owner wont have done them. BERU recommend changing them every 70,000 miles or so. Im on 107,000!

Ive got six shiny injectors sat downstairs and a service looming, i thought for £60 delivered why not just get the whole lot done. BERU website is pretty good, it matched the ECP product code to my car manufacture period exactly. Although i am going to stick my head under the bonnet and look for the red seal at some point.

[fieldy]

Replace the new ones to correct toque again do not over tighten them. I'm sure there is some help on Beru website about torques for these.

BERU recommend 15Nm i think, but its all on their website so good to check.

[gupsterg]

That link I've posted suggests 17nm on metal ones... even using torque wrench there is error margin on their calibration so anything in the region of 15 to 17 nm then going to be ok..

May then have do at some point then, mines at 80k... it may help with my issue and I'll just leave it at that :Blush2:...
Cheers for info Fieldy :beerchug:...

Do the new ones have red seal on top as well? ECP website image show them like that...

[fieldy]

That link I've posted suggests 17nm on metal ones... even using torque wrench there is error margin on their calibration so anything in the region of 15 to 17 nm then going to be ok..

May then have do at some point then, mines at 80k... it may help with my issue and I'll just leave it at that :Blush2:...
Cheers for info Fieldy :beerchug:...

Do the new ones have red seal on top as well? ECP website image show them like that...

Will let you know when they arrive.

Out of interest as have been searching all day for the answer, where are the glow plugs?

[gupsterg]

View where the red dots are on below image...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/2_7%203_0%20TDi%20stuff/Glowplugs_zps22f827cc.jpg

You will the recognise the rest of them... remove the elec.connection which look similar to a HT lead on a spark plug...

[bops6]

I'm thinking at some point to do mine as they seem low cost item and good to replace if they are being used until coolant reach (x) temp/time elapsed...

A question for fieldy/bops6 are you guys replacing because of faults or preventive measure or just little misfires etc?

Hi sparker... did you do yours when you did the swirl manifolds?

I saw the tool used in service guide is just a deep socket with universal joint and extension bar is that what you used?

I'll be replacing mine now I've read this thread due to there cold starting performance and also when I fit my new turbo and stuff I want the best ignition I can get

[2fquick]

Just replaced mine with beru glow plugs from Eurocarparts BMK engine had metal red ring plugs.

Well I've done 5 of them No. 3 did not want to move so I'll give it a couple of weeks with the Plusgas

[bops6]

Ordered from ecp, will be fitting next weekend assuming delivered in time.

[sparker]

On mine 3.0tdi ASB. Old glow plug (original) has red ring, and this on it; 266 020 BED. VW-A6 059963319 (then a letter i think but it is not clear)

New glow plug has red ring and this on it; 0100 266 040 4.4V.

They look identical apart from text.

[snapdragon]

I ordered NGK from ebay in the end for £63.
Y-609AS (http://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e11400.m1842.l3160/7?euid=fb132930ebea43c49d96912a35951c92&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.co.uk%2Fws%2FeBayISAPI.d ll%3FViewItem%26item%3D290447622480%26ssPageName%3 DADME%3AL%3AOC%3AGB%3A3160) 4.4V

ECP lists 12v BERU 438440055 plugs when I put my reg. no. in.
As they don't give the actual BERU part number such as GE115 I couldn't cross reference them to see if was just a webpage error. The bloke in the local branch was a brain dead as usual.
There are 3 types (part numbers) of BERU metal plug.
They gradually got longer tips between the tip and shoulder, the longer ones are the latest, but they all work and are suitable, so don't worry too much if some sellers list different ones.

[sparker]

The ECP Beru glow plugs are GE115, 0 100 266 040 = ECP part 438 44 0015. Also I found on the box 15Nm torque. (A6 3.0tdi ASB 2006) Maybe ECP list A8 3.0tdi as a different part no?

[Cwizard]

I know this sounds stupid, but where are the glow plugs? Anyone got real pics? Not illustrations please. i've seen plenty and they're all confusing... n00b :-(

[sparker]

Cwizard, Under the "How to" threads look at my pictures for "Intake Manifold Replacement and Fix - 2.7 TDi + 3.0 TDi V6 Engines" it shows the glow plugs in the pictures, with the manifolds removed. That may help you. Obviously three on each bank with what looks like a mini spark plug lead attached.

[Cwizard]

How about do you go removing those rubber plug leads that are attached? I tried pulling them out i heard funny sounds and left it at that... pretty scared to be honest.

[sparker]

They pull straight off. Can be tight, they do clip on to glow plug inside the cap. Just pull cap straight up and don't pull on the wires.

[Cwizard]

I take it that to replace the glow plugs i have to remove inlet manifold??

[sparker]

No no. Those pictures are just for reference. You don't need to remove the manifolds. See my previous post on fitting them!

[2fquick]

You can buy special pliers for pulling the glow plug connectors.
But on the ones that were very tight I used a piece of 2mm nylon cord, tied a slip knot over the wire, fed it down, pulled tight then pulled up. Worked a treat

[snapdragon]

When the engine is hot, the rubber is more forgiving. Mine came off with pointy pliars and a bit or wiggling while pulling.
I had to remove the two rear posts that hold the engine cover on so that the wiring loom brackets lift off.
I used a deep 10mm socket (you can buy them specifically for glowplugs) and a bunch of cheap 1/4 inch extensions.
A 'wiggle' extension that allows you to have the socket straight on the plug, but the entension and wrench at an angle is needed for at least one of the plugs, As I didn't have one, I found that popping the extension out of the socket and pushing it back in a small amount gave enough play.

A spray brake cleaner, followed by a good dode of PlugGas helped release them and protect the threads, aerosol jet is best and the glow plugs are down in crevices.
I used a 3/8 drive torque wrench with a 3/8 to 1/4 adaptor. Most torque wrenches start above 15Nm though so you may need a small one.
VAG says install the plugs dry, and BERU says use their special copper-free anti sieze. I used a feint smear of ceratec brake grease.
I only torqued mine to 10-12Nm as I could tell it was plenty and they were lubricated which can give a lower reading.

If I did it again, I would use an air duster to blow out the holes so there is lower risk of debris on the mating flange down inside.

[gupsterg]

Most torque wrenches start above 15Nm though so you may need a small one.

I know a bit pricey now@£75... but I bought mine a while ago and got to admit the Halfords advanced one is great to use... does 8 -60 nm... Link:- Halfords Adv. 3/8 Torq.Wrench (http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_17 8843_langId_-1_categoryId_165469)

For heavier duty situations I've found the Link:- Challenge 1/2 Torq.Wrench (http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/7004243.htm) maxes out at 240nm IIRC... used when did brake callipers,etc...
IIRC it is same as Sliverline one which I've seen on ebay for about £20...

I'm bit of sucker for tools :) ...

Link:- Torque wrenches tested | Auto Express (http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/36087/torque-wrenches-tested)

[2fquick]

Anyone tried one of these ?
http://www.sykes-pickavant.com/08590000/tabid/587/language/en/Default.aspx
Sykes-Pickavant Vibro Impact Glowplug Remover Kit -- 08590000 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXoF00uTr_Q)
Laser tools do a cheaper one
http://www.lasertools.co.uk/item.aspx?cat=371&item=8046

[sparker]

I would imagine they work really well, vibration rather than torque to get them out cleanly. Never used these, if I did use one on my car for the first time I'm sure I would be terrified.

Like snapdragon I torque mine to 12Nm feeling that was tight enough. I have a torque wrench from Chain reaction cycles, 1/4" drive and small perfect for this.

[Cwizard]

I've started getting all the necessary tools for the change of glow plugs. So far i've found:
BGS Germany Torque Wrench "Workshop" , 1/4", 6-30NM | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BGS-Germany-Torque-Wrench-Workshop-1-4-6-30NM-/120655395991?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c179f3c97&_uhb=1#ht_3070wt_1058)
and
BGS Germany 6-pcs Joint Socket Set Glow Plugs 3/8"drive | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BGS-Germany-6-pcs-Joint-Socket-Set-Glow-Plugs-3-8-drive-/120650484770?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c17544c22&_uhb=1#ht_2303wt_1058)

Would those tools be sufficient for the job or do i need more tools?
Also i've found :

6X Glow Plug for Audi A4 A6 A5 A8 Q7 VW Touareg 2 7 3 0 4 2 V6 Made in Germany | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/6x-Glow-plug-Audi-A4-A6-A5-A8-Q7-VW-Touareg-2-7-3-0-4-2-V6-Made-Germany-/230759989914?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item35ba5e029a)

or do i need these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6x-BERU-GLUHKERZE-GLUHSTIFT-2-7-3-0-TDI-V6-GE115-Audi-A4-A6-A8-Q7-VW-Touareg-/230776792711?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item35bb5e6687
confused :confused:
Let me know your thoughts...

[gupsterg]

059963319E supersede to 059963319F then supersede to 059963319J (this is current for 2.7/3.0 TDi engine codes BMK, BNG, BPP, BSP, ASB)...

So I'm guessing you have a adaptor to take the 3/8 to 1/4?

[Cwizard]

I actually haven't got an adaptor. I somehow forgot about that. Proves im silly with tools!!!
What kind of adaptor do i need?

Something like this? Would it be good enough for the glow plug swap?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CRV-Socket-Adaptor-Enlarger-1-4-drive-to-3-8-1-4-female-3-8-male-/320996875146?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4abce79b8a&_uhb=1#ht_500wt_1291

[gupsterg]

Yep, that look good... so you have difficulty getting parts in auz?

[Cwizard]

Well today im ordering MAF sensor + Glow plugs from the UK (Genuine Audi parts). I'm going to record the whole process and put it up on youtube. Shouldn't be a problem. Parts + labour is extremely expensive here. Australia is a rip off country honestly speaking. Add to that- its at the 'end of the world' haha. Audi dealer want $900 for an oil+filter change- NOTHING else. Thats about 550 pounds. For a 2006 audi... ridiculous!
Do i need deep socket or should these do fine : BGS Germany 6-pcs Joint Socket Set Glow Plugs 3/8"drive | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BGS-Germany-6-pcs-Joint-Socket-Set-Glow-Plugs-3-8-drive-/120650484770?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c17544c22&_uhb=1#ht_2303wt_1058) ?
The guy told me i can return unused items for a refund...

[gupsterg]

The oil change price is about what the local dealer quoted me for mine, done at home for £85 IIRC...

On the listing for sockets they list what length the 14 & 16mm are ie 75 to 80 mm... so 10mm socket going to be 65mm in length... I guess be correct for use, maybe someone who done change will give you info on length of the glow plug or you could measure yours? ie the section protruding from the engine block...

I will be ordering a set form eurocarparts as they so cheap at mo (£10 vs £20 from dealer)... will measure then if you not get answer...

Are you buying MAF, etc from the "Parts for Audi" ebay seller? when I last spoke to that guy concerning injectors he is not UK based... he is in Poland and has a mate or address in UK which he use for ebay selling... I asked to collect injectors and he said I could but not really a business, no invoice besides paypal,etc, etc...

[Cwizard]

The following errors occurred with your submission

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[gupsterg]

Sorry mate :o last nite got a bit hectic on PM's... anyway like I said if parts is issue maybe we can suss out feasibility on posting you...

[Cwizard]

Would be a good idea. I'll give this guy a shout (Parts for Audi VW) if he can't get it we'll work something out ourselves, hopefully.

[bops6]

Wow, what a service. Ordered yesterday delivered today. And all with the Xmas post. Well done Ecp.

[fieldy]

Wow, what a service. Ordered yesterday delivered today. And all with the Xmas post. Well done Ecp.

haha, random, mine haven't. Ordered Wed.

[Gavin0478]

Fitted mine last wednesday and was dead easy... smooth starting from now on. :D

[gupsterg]

Hi http://cdn.as-static.com/vb/images/smilies/friends.gif,

I've now changed glow plugs cylinders 1, 2, 3, 4 ... soon 5 & 6 will be done fingers cross tomorrow :) ...

I did the front two first ie cylinders 1 & 4 ... Just like Crashers says here Link:- Signs of compression loss... - Page 2 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?140986-Signs-of-compression-loss&p=772995#post772995)

They make a horrible noise :( sounds like grating metal, at times you think is glow plug rotating or sound of me twisting it :( ... I did set my torque wrench to 20nm on removal ...

I would say front & rear two are the easier ones... the middle ones IMO are a mare, it may be due to me having the early 3.0 common rail system :dunno: ...

Before removal I ran my engine hot (as advised by sparker & die tryin' http://cdn.as-static.com/vb/images/smilies/friends.gif)... the glow plug access areas where blasted with compressed air before beginning removal, I also blasted them again before removing glow plugs as socket had loosened/disturbed more dirt in the access area...

I found using the 6mm PVC hose with a section of the rear washer pipework inserted in it a great tool to located glow plugs in the bores, especially the middle ones...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Bucket%20load%20fun%20A6%20Avant/DSCF5013.jpg

I have so far only oiled the shafts of the glow plugs, the threads I have kept dry and tightened to 17nm as advised in the service guide...

BERU's site seems to be contradicting on thread greasing...

On this section they advise grease thread & shaft....

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Glow%20plug%20stuff/Beru1_zpsc28bf662.jpg

Then here Link:- Tips on Fitting | BERU Systems GmbH (http://www.beru.com/products/diesel-cold-start-technology/glow-plugs/tips-on-fitting) they only say shaft...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Glow%20plug%20stuff/Beru2_zpsfa6953fd.jpg
Then here same info Link:- Diagnostic Aid for Glow Plugs: The heater element reveals much! | BERU Systems GmbH (http://www.beru.com/products/diesel-cold-start-technology/glow-plugs/diagnostic-aid-for-glow-plugs)

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Glow%20plug%20stuff/beru3_zps86bdb70b.jpg

VAG guide as already highlighted by snapdragon is dry fit... Link:- Post 36 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?134034-Which-Glow-Plugs-for-3-0TDI-%28BMK%29&p=771973#post771973)

There are images/video of how I did middle one on bank one without intake manifold removal... will add/update as soon as cylinders 5 & 6 are done ...

Thankyou Sparker, Snapdragon & Die tryin' in experience shares http://cdn.as-static.com/vb/images/smilies/friends.gif& Crasher :fing02:...

[sparker]

I know that feeling as you unscrew the glow plug, not sure if it has actually snapped off and you are just turning the top off the glow plug. Every noise and creak and the relief when it comes out!

To grease or not to grease? How can these manufactures opinions differ so much? Yes, they are nickel plated so you shouldn't get (bi metallic?) corrosion but why does Beru say grease (with special grease) and Borgwarner (Beru?) say, under no circumstance grease.
That just leaves everyone scratching there heads. I put a tiny amount of anti seize paste on mine, if I do any more I will just screw them in like you. Hopefully it wouldn't be me taking them out again any way!

Another job well researched and completed (almost). Excellent.

[gupsterg]

Hi ya Sparker :) ...


To grease or not to grease?

Denso another OE spec manufacturer again advise no grease... Link:- How To Install (http://www.denso-am.co.uk/glowPlugs_install.asp)

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Glow%20plug%20stuff/Denso1_zpsef79d7bd.jpghttp://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Glow%20plug%20stuff/Denso2_zpsb63e0afa.jpg

Now you can also see manufacturer to manufacturer even tightening NM suggestion differs... BERU 15nm, DENSO 10-12nm... VAG service guide 17nm ...

But on the BERU glow plug packaging box I noticed two logos... one looks like saying get a mechanic to do job!:p... next one to me implied consult service guide :) ...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Glow%20plug%20stuff/aaab46e6-894d-4669-91d4-354eb826b183_zps87bb9b9c.jpg

For cylinder 2 I undid the the glow plug by using the universal joint placing it after the high pressure fuel line connection (will make sense in video further on), when I went to do up the new glow plug I found suddenly the torque wrench went click within a few turns... my heart literally sank :( ... even though I had placed glow plug correctly and hand tightened a few threads it must of gone skewed :( ...

I carefully removed GP thinking that's it I've cross threaded the bore, it's cylinder head off time! :( ...

There were very minute metal particles on the thread of GP... I inspected the bore and all looked well to me, the GP seemed to be the only damaged thread... the very first two threads marked with red lines below...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Glow%20plug%20stuff/GPCross1_zpsa12accca.jpg
http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Glow%20plug%20stuff/GPCross2_zpsd981c14b.jpg

Now why would this situation have occurred if I'd been so careful :confused: ...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Glow%20plug%20stuff/GPoldwiththread_zps3f1d73ba.jpg

3 out of the 4 GP's done so far have come out with the top most thread of bore with them :( ... in above partial thread of another section of the bore thread on GP... this stripping of thread seems common...


...replace the glow plugs (VCDS was showing a fault on #6). What a pain! To get at the glow plugs I had to remove the fuel rails, then one of the threads stripped on the way out. I really did wish I hadn't start this!

From Link:- 3.0 TDI won't start (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?142827-3-0-TDI-won-t-start&p=786790#post786790)

IMO it is very difficult to do the middle ones access is very tight especially with the manifolds/fuel rail+pipes in place... I managed but only just...

When attempting Cyl.2 again I used another new GP and placed the socket on the GP first with coat hanger wire then used only the extension bar through the small gap before the HP fuel line connection on CR...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuAc1D_SNWM

Now I think using the universal joint must put cross force on GP (used in 1st attempt) and if said bore has threads partially stripped/damaged on removal then more likely for skewing to occur again only my thoughts...

Compared with injectors I think glow plugs are a more higher risk job... I had no faults on my glowplugs I was doing them to remove off my list for my idle issue... I have marked all GP's as to which bore they have come out of, to assess them/engine state another thread ;)...

Mine to me looked like the factory fitted ones:-

i) as they looked undisturbed ii) all the same ageing/markings, 059 963 319 E this was P/N on all which going by parts cat dropped approx 04/2008


Hopefully it wouldn't be me taking them out again any way!

Another job well researched and completed (almost). Excellent.

I agree not a job I really wanna do again :Blush2: ... I think I've said it before mechanics must hate the V6! ...

[sparker]

Gup, I hate to say it but the GP that you removed (3rd GP pic) looks grim. I would say that the threads are already cross threaded/damaged and aluminium should not be coming away. BE VERY CARE FULL PUTTING THE NEW ONES IN! Make sure they go in square and line up properly with aluminium threads in head and hopefully no more damage will occur (the picture of the one that you had a problem with didn't start with the threads in the head). I would say that these aren't the original plugs and they where not fitted properly or some sort of corrosion has occurred and the damaging of the threads is happening as you remove them.

I think when I removed mine there was I snap as they first undid but then came out quite smoothly. New ones went in smooth.

I wonder if someone fitted them with greece and this is what happens when you go to get them out again!

Just be very careful and don't force them in.

[gupsterg]

Gup, I hate to say it but the GP that you removed (3rd GP pic) looks grim.

I agree :Blush2: ... but some what the magnification of the GP is making it look worse... I count your judgement better than mine as this is the first time I've done/seen this stuff for real :Blush2: ...


I would say that the threads are already cross threaded/damaged and aluminium should not be coming away. Are you able to check your old ones? when viewing threads in head they look good/clean to me... when I've done work its been late evening so dark outside and when using the LED head torch detail is great IMO vs working in daylight...


BE VERY CARE FULL PUTTING THE NEW ONES IN! Make sure they go in square and line up properly with aluminium threads in head and hopefully no more damage will occur
I agree :Blush2: ... I've been extremely careful... cleaning access areas before starting removal, once GP on last threads I give a second blast of compressed air then remove... when removing and inserting new ones I'm making sure they don't touch any areas to pickup dirt which could migrate into piston chamber... I use the air hose tool to insert the glow plugs by inserting the elec.pin into hose...

Cylinders 1, 2, 3, 4 all been smooth to go in... on removal all have been a little stiff at first but then smooth, on refit you can feel the bite of them hitting the bore seat then the final click of torque wrench, all look seated well and perpendicular to the bore... I was trying to find a thread where I'd seen badly seated GP's on another forum but can't seem to find it at the moment :Blush2: ...


(the picture of the one that you had a problem with didn't start with the threads in the head).
Pic 1 & 2 are a new GP which went bad... Pic 3 is old GP from cyl.4 no issue on removal/install of new(was one of the quieter ones)... I will do detail photos of all GP's and do a different thread then perhaps you can comment more...


Just be very careful and don't force them in.

None have been forced, all have been initially hand tightened to make sure they are going in correct... but really don't know what happened with cyl.2 on 1st attempt, I'm just glad 2nd attempt was successful... even when using universal joint I try to do as straight angles... just got 2 more to do and just want them out the way :Blush2: ...

[gupsterg]

Well peeps nailed Cyl.6 GP... was tense times :Blush2:... wrench@20nm for undoing went click after a slight movement from GP... upped to 24nm again another slight movement and then click http://cdn.as-static.com/vb/images/smilies/blink.gif... at this point lower bowel movements began http://cdn.as-static.com/vb/images/smilies/faint.gif ... do I redo the GP and leave it or carry on :confused: ...

I thought sod it! and carried on to 28nm and it started shifting...

I then inspected the GP which I had removed from Cyl.6 and it did indeed have section of thread from head about I'd say 1 1/2 turns worth on it... similar to the bad GP photo in post 56 (the 3rd one)...

On install of new GP same thing happened as Cyl.2 but I caught the signs before torque wrench clicked set to 17nm :Blush2:... I have truly been very careful and really don't know why this is happening http://cdn.as-static.com/vb/images/smilies/think.gifand Cyl. 6 has one of the most accessible bores...

So 4 out of the 5 GP's have damaged/removed 1 to 1 1/2 turns of the thread from the head :( ...

Cyl.5 was obscured by the HPFL connection on the CR... so I have left that till when I clean swirl manifolds (if I don't get rid before then!)...

[sparker]

If the old glow plug is pulling part of the thread out of the cylinder head then you are going to have a problem to get the new ones to start in the threads properly as they are damaged. If this is caused by corrosion in the threads near the top of GP/head then as you remove the old ones that might be the cause of the damage to the rest of the threads on the GP as you wind them out, as they will be turn through the damaged area. At least that means the threads lower down in head are in good shape. As you where careful getting the new glow plugs to start in the good section of thread then all is well.
A bit late but for the last one try undoing a tiny bit and then do it up again. Work it in and out like that to try and free it up. Also before you start use penetrating oil for a few days and let it soak into those top threads, this was something I did as it had been recommended by a friend (mechanic).

Looks like you have got away with these without out a major problem but touch and go!

[gupsterg]

If the old glow plug is pulling part of the thread out of the cylinder head then you are going to have a problem to get the new ones to start in the threads properly as they are damaged.

I think this is why they are not going far with hand tightening... so 4 bores had top most thread stripped/damaged on removal I must have been lucky with the 2 GP's which went in AOK on 1st attempt... I think Cyl.'s 2 & 6 the damage to thread must have been at a point where when starting to install the GP's they crossed/recreated thread... I'm hoping as I removed the crossed new GP's and installed fresh ones that the rest of the threads is now fine... I was not prepared to remove and check as they reached seating point and locked well... all look good to me, car drive fine and scans show no faults...


If this is caused by corrosion in the threads near the top of GP/head then as you remove the old ones that might be the cause of the damage to the rest of the threads on the GP as you wind them out, as they will be turn through the damaged area.

I agree... my view is the old GP's thread resembles the new GP's crossed threads and what you are saying is what I think is occurring... every thread of the old GP is passing through the damaged top most thread...


At least that means the threads lower down in head are in good shape. As you where careful getting the new glow plugs to start in the good section of thread then all is well.

I hope so too :Blush2: ... I really believe all my GP's are the original factory ones as all have identical markings and ageing to me, maybe that is why thread is being stripped due to being in there 8 odd years...

I am glad I did dry fit of GP's as I believe I could have easily not noticed the crossing occurring on Cyl. 2 & 6 if they had been greased... I also believe the torque wrench has saved me!


A bit late but for the last one try undoing a tiny bit and then do it up again. Work it in and out like that to try and free it up. Also before you start use penetrating oil for a few days and let it soak into those top threads, this was something I did as it had been recommended by a friend (mechanic).
I will try your tip :beerchug: as always very BIG THANK YOU for your support mate :approve:...


Looks like you have got away with these without out a major problem but touch and go!

I hope so :Blush2: ... trust me not looking forward to Cyl. 5 and not prepared to try it with the tight access situation... it can wait!

[sparker]

Undoing the GP I would turn it in and out back and forth a 1/4 turn to start with, spraying some penetrating fluid on while doing it to see if it frees up a bit then turn it out as you have been. Don't want to be screwing it up and down as more damage might occur.

So if the steel and the alloy have fused with corrosion maybe I will stick with a little anti seize???

Hope the last one comes out the easiest for you.

[gupsterg]

I will try your tips :) ...


So if the steel and the alloy have fused with corrosion maybe I will stick with a little anti seize???

I agree anti seize would help :) ... it is so confusing as you can see when doing them up you could miss signs of cross threaded occurring, maybe if I had more mechanical experience I would be better at it :Blush2: ...

Do you think the terminology of galling Snapdragon used here is that what I'm experiencing... Link:- Post 17 of another thread (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?140986-Signs-of-compression-loss&p=773038#post773038)


I wouldn't fancy removing and refitting the same glowplugs, you may find the aluminium of the head is slighly galled onto the threads plugging them and so best not to refit them.

I have changed plugs twice on VAG V6s and the first time they were all galled and were stiff to remove and made a horrible metallic creaking noise most of the way out.

On my current car, only one made this noise and was galled. It was stiff all the way to the end of the threads, but the others were easier once cracked loose.

Get them started by hand. I found a tiny smear of copper-FREE grease really helped as BERU recommend, even though Audi says fit them dry.

As yesterday I did Cyl.5 in the daytime to me I couldn't see/tell thread damage on head I tried filming/photographing but focus went out on most shots...

I'm so :confused: ... but at least its nearly over now :Blush:...

Could it be that due to how long these GP's have been in there and combined with constant heating/cooling that the top thread may get weak and thus partially gall/strip :confused: ...

[gupsterg]

Having experienced how much of a mare replacing these are I for one would only go BERU or Audi genuine...

There is also the potential of allowing debris on engine surface/outer & inner bore to enter engine another reason not to keep wishing to do them repeatedly...

The other thing which I think is also essential is testing the new GP with multimeter before fitting...

Which I must admit I've not kept doing but in hindsight should be done :Blush2: ...

[gupsterg]

Hi http://cdn.as-static.com/vb/images/smilies/friends.gif's,

It has truly been emotional http://cdn.as-static.com/vb/images/smilies/crying.gif but today it is a time for http://cdn.as-static.com/vb/images/smilies/yahoo.gif...

As the sharp hitching of revs on first start of the day/when engine cold has not occurred for a few days... intermediate temp flutter remains but I'm hoping EGR/intake system decoke will help as that MVB goes out when this happens...

I was thinking I will post once final glow plug is done but could not contain the happiness of posting this info it has been truly a long and arduous journey with all that I've done to my A6...

My glow plugs showed no faults in VCDS, visual inspection on removal they do not look damaged, to me they seem original factory fit ones so perhaps after 8yrs/80k miles they had become poor...

There have been times where I truly felt people must think I'm http://cdn.as-static.com/vb/images/smilies/wacko.gif... but I continued as:-

i) the support I got through VWAF members http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/beerchug.gif...

ii) the phone support given by Apole & Die Tryin' http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/beerchug.gif...

iii) the online support of Sparker http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/beerchug.gif...

iv) I had ploughed so much £££ I had no option IMO of continuing http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/redface.png ...

I must say very big thank you to all who have contributed to the many threads that I have used as their efforts have helped me and will help others...

Some may think certain stuff I've done on car is easy but I'm a papershuffler not a mechanic!

Regards
G

PS Sparker maybe very soon she will be Peachy the peach A6!

[MarkTM]

I meant to post a pic when I had my plugs changed at the end of August, had prepared mine with sprays of plusgas for 5 days before.

It took mechanic 15 minutes to change them with no special equipment (apart from airline for cleaning) and he torqued them to 16nm. He was apprenticed at a VAG Indy and worked there for 8yrs leaving in 2010 so pretty au-fait with our engines. He said he'd never had one shear off but when it did for DIY'ers it was mainly down to their uncertainty/trepidation, so they'd hear it creaking (mainly rust/gung seals breaking) and they'd stop, he advised consistant force and not to be afraid of it. He did say that plusgas is the only thing he's use...so lucky I had some

Pic attached, wierdly cylinder 2 was not the second one from the top showing the discolouration, also a mix of Beru 204 & 711 but they look the same, he thought 4 were original 2 were replaced since, no signs of wear and the same length as the replacements...which from what's been said previously would indicate that all of them have been replaced.

22611


Am still getting a cylinder 2 fault so am guessing the glowplug timing control module (going on the wiki checklist) and have been quoted £70.81 inc VAT which dealership have advised is a relay...I've checked/tested the wiring.

Anyone know where the relay can be found, what it looks looks like or a part no??

[gupsterg]

Anyone know where the relay can be found, what it looks looks like or a part no??

Sorry for super delayed reply! LOL

Relay in the left plenum chamber elec.box, when viewing standing in front of engine bay. The relay is marked with 639, VAG P/N 4E0 907 282 , approx £60 from dealer.

And the reason for me to bump this thread was there has been a few threads RE length of glowplugs for the V6 TDi, the Beru ones I fitted were 130mm.

Tech data can be found at Beru Aftermarket Product finder (http://www.beru.com/bw/aftermarket/product-finder) and there are also other manufacturers and their tech data is online.

[ragebe]

Glühkerzenwechsel Audi A6 / V6 TDI ( VW Skoda Seat ) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b33O8GeqqaA)

At 8.03 the mechanic is applying grease. I've just bought 6 x new glow-plugs from ECP but after reading Gup's tale of woe, I'm not sure I want to fit them.

[MarkTM]

Just cos he's a German working on a German car doesn't automatically mean he's doing it right :biglaugh:

[ragebe]

You know Mark the Somerset border is only 40 minutes from my house. You could pop round and lend a hand :)

[gupsterg]

Glühkerzenwechsel Audi A6 / V6 TDI ( VW Skoda Seat ) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b33O8GeqqaA)

At 8.03 the mechanic is applying grease.

That's way too much grease he's using IMO.


... after reading Gup's tale of woe, I'm not sure I want to fit them.

My experience can't be used as what all will experience.

Only you can decide if it's something you wanna take on or needs doing? I'm just glad so many members shared info and tips that educated me to be able to do mine :grouphug:.

Still haven't done cylinder 5 GP ...

[edwardsj]

:grouphug:

Still haven't done cylinder 5 GP ...

Gup - don't know if this is any help at all, but I seem to remember using long nose pliers to lift out/insert the awkward one.. Otherwise just used a deep 3/8 socket, short bar, knuckle joint, another short bar and t- handle. Torque wrench to tighten...

[gupsterg]

Cheers for tips :) , I had/have the appropriate tools.

Why I can't bring myself to do it besides the awkward placement is that some of the GP's I replaced (I think most, been a while since I did them). I think the top most thread was detaching from cylinder head, thus the old GP's thread looked bad plus awkward to start tightening new ones. Cyl.5 seems so awkward that if the thread on removal gets so damaged that I can't get new one in I'd be creating a whole new can of worms to deal with plus the GP is working.

Engine had been warmed, penetrating spray oils had been applied prior to doing work well in advance, compressed air had also been used to clean all areas before work.

I'd starting replacing them really due to the idling issue on car and we don't wanna talk about that ;) .

Me & the wife have decided I only carry out the necessities on the A6 and when it go pop we get another car.

Don't get me wrong past 2 or so years now have been good, other than general servicing the car has behaved (as I type this I'm holding all the lucky charms I can find :o).

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/my%20hairline_zpsomxql5eh.jpg

[MarkTM]

You know Mark the Somerset border is only 40 minutes from my house. You could pop round and lend a hand :)

Sorry over 90 from me, not ashamed to admit that I too had a problem 'manning up' so just paid someone £35 to do them and my other cars plugs and coils :D