Are Hids illegal ?

[Puresilk]

I have my mot comming up and I currently have 6k Hids with H7R bulbs and the beam pattern has been aligned correctly.

But I have read from 2012 all aftermarket Hids will be an not failure? Has anyone with Hids had an Mot recently ?

[A4 Lad]

You need a self leveling system and a headlight washer system. Period.

[Boxa786]

I have the same as you and had MOT done about a month ago. No problems with HID.

[darich]

A4Lad is correct.

No manufacturer sells HID aftermarket as road legal.
Self levelling suspension and washer system are legal requirements.

Boxa786....your MOT tester is either a friendly one, or back street one.

Having said that, I've just fitted one to my bike. I've read many forum posts where others have passed MOTs no problems with aftermarket HIDs.

[Boxa786]

I have self levelling and can see it in action every time I switch on the headlights. Don't think I have washer system and not sure what this is, but the MOT guy was a friendly one though.

[darich]

washer system is basically washer jets for the headlamps. My car has HIDs fitted at the factory. When I spray my windscreen with my headlamps on, there is a powerful spray of washer fluid aimed at the headlamps. If headlamps are off, then there is no spray at them.

Are you sure you have self levelling suspension and not adaptive headlamps? Not sure why you'd have self levelling suspension without HIDs.
As far as I know, on the rear suspension of a self levelling system, there are a couple of blue plastic pieces. Care has to be taken if upgrading the rear anti roll bar because if these blue plastic pieces are broken, the self levelling system is broken.

[Boxa786]

I'm not sure if I have the self levelling system, but when I switch on my headlights, they don't just turn on like normal lights do, they go from dim to bright then slightly dim. Looks like a energy saving bulb from dim to bright, then it's like slightly dim's itself to not so bright and same with level of the beam. Start's off close then goes out, then slightly less out. This is what I see every time I switch on my headlights.

Cool, I thought it would be that what you described as washer system, but was not sure. Something I will definitely be looking in to getting some time in the near future...

[chody]

according to an auto express article this week they are legal and washer jets and self levelling must be working IF fitted , the article was about a boy in northern Ireland whos' evo failed the mot on this problemwith factory fitted hids but according to them the mainland rules are different and only if fitted they must be in good working order

[darich]

According to Department for Transport, they're not legal

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/dft-information-sheets/aftermarket-hid-headlamps.pdf
It also states that the car MUST have levelling system and washer system.

EDIT : You won't find any after market conversion kits that comply with ECE Regulation 98. This therefore renders all after market kits illegal.

[A4 Lad]

I live in Northern Ireland and they have only brought the law in for MOT last month along with alot of other mod unfriendly checks. I have had countless customers fail because they have HIDs fitted and have not had self leveling system and headlight washers. The other checks that they are hamering people with is that you need to fget your hand between the tyre and wheel arch ( too low on springs or coilovers ) or its a fail. The other popular new one is if your SRS or AIRBAG light is on BUT get this. If you take out the bulb or put tape over it in the instrument panel, it passes ! A load of ******** if you ask me !

[Vikingraider]

HID kits in headlights are not legal in the letter of the law. The vehicle must have been type approved with the kits fitted to be strictly legal, and not many manufacturers bought cheap Chinese copy kits to fit to their cars, choosing instead to fit good quality, high end Xenon projector kits.

HID kits however will pass an MOT in this country with no issues, and do not require headlight washers and self levelling kits to pass. The car must however pass the headlight alignment test applied in the mot, just as normal headlight bulbs must. Further to this, if either headlight washers or self levelers are fitted then they must work, but if they are not fitted then the tester is outside of his authority if he fails a vehicle without them.

To explain the above: -

HID lamps that have an output of less than 2000 Lumens do not need headlamp levelling or washing. LED lamps under 2000 Lumens must have self levelling, but do not need washing.

It is not possible for an MOT tester to determine whether or not a particular lamp is more than 2000 Lumens or not. The MOT test therefore uses the lowest criteria that can realistically be applied; so if a particular vehicle is fitted with a headlamp levelling or washing system, then we consider it logical to assume that it requires it by law and therefore it must work. Conversely, if a vehicle is not fitted with these systems, it would be logical to assume that they are not legally required.

[Puresilk]

My test is in a week we will soon find out and I'll update this post

[zollaf]

just because a car passes an mot does not mean a traffic cop who has had a bad day could not throw the book at you for driving a car with an illegal modification.

[Vikingraider]

just because a car passes an mot does not mean a traffic cop who has had a bad day could not throw the book at you for driving a car with an illegal modification.
Just out of interest, what could he actually do you for? I guess he could contact your insurers and ask them if the mod is declared or not, and if not then he could possibly do you for not having a valid insurance policy. But if your insurers are aware of the kit and have it noted on the policy, then what can the roadside Police actually do you for. The vehicle is MOT'd, insured, taxed (I presume), and the driver has a valid license. What Law has been broken?

[zollaf]

because you have headlights that are not type approved ?

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/dft-information-sheets/aftermarket-hid-headlamps.pdf

[NickPicks]

Just out of interest, what could he actually do you for?

Probably The Road Vehicles (Construction And Use) Regulations 1986. There are a lot of things in the C&U that aren't checked in an MOT test.

[zollaf]

even hids4u sell them as for off road use only

http://www.hids4us.com/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=13

[Vikingraider]

because you have headlights that are not type approved ?

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/dft-information-sheets/aftermarket-hid-headlamps.pdf

Yes, that link gets volunteered many times and quoted as Law. It's not. It's simply the DFT's view on the law. The fact that they state that HIDs must have self levelers and washers is just not true, as there's the 2000 Lumens requirement for that. But all that aside, if a Police officer stops you at the side of the road and gives you a ticket, what specifically will he be writing the ticket for?

The only legislation that can be pulled out and used is Road Traffic Act 1988, and then you need to be able to prove that the kits as fitted are not legal. That's some act even for a Traffic, don't you agree?

Now I'm not being argumentative at all, in fact my first post on the thread stated they weren't legal in the letter of the law, but I'm curious as to how anyone is going to get a ticket and what it's going to be for. There's so much detail to be covered and checked that generally plod won't have the time or inclination to go through it all, I guess.

[Iceash]

mine just passed with them fitted. I even said they were after market lights. said wasn't a problem as long as the beam was correct. and it was so passed with no issues :-)

[zollaf]

i know, it needs someone to actually be taken to court for anything to actually happen. hopefully that won't be too long as i get fed up of being blinded by people with them fitted, but i cannot find any reference to a single case. it would also appear that vosa have delayed the introduction of the new mot rules that may or may not result in a fail ???
i will just continue to use good old fashioned bulbs and swear at drivers that blind me and eagerly await the day a cop does decide to do something about it.

[Iceash]

i know, it needs someone to actually be taken to court for anything to actually happen. hopefully that won't be too long as i get fed up of being blinded by people with them fitted, but i cannot find any reference to a single case. it would also appear that vosa have delayed the introduction of the new mot rules that may or may not result in a fail ???
i will just continue to use good old fashioned bulbs and swear at drivers that blind me and eagerly await the day a cop does decide to do something about it.
You should only be blinded by someone running them incorrectly, ie non projector headlamps or pointing them sky high. I've never been flashed and I have mine set low. The Wife thinks they're dimmer than the old Halogens that were in the L200 I used to have lol I've even been flashed a few times when driving that oddly lol

[Vikingraider]

As it happens, I used to run an HIDs4u kit in the van, with the shielded bulbs, and I never got anyone flashing me. Passed many MOT's too with a good beam pattern. I now have OEM xenons in the Jetta, and I often get flashed, even with the self levelers. If there was manual adjustment in there then I'd wind them down a click or two.

[zollaf]

where i live there are a lot of wannabee rally drivers in saxo's and corsa's, all fitted with the brightest hids they can find and they are a right pain. its easy enough to swop them out for the mot though, and no police on the roads in wild west wales.

[Iceash]

As it happens, I used to run an HIDs4u kit in the van, with the shielded bulbs, and I never got anyone flashing me. Passed many MOT's too with a good beam pattern. I now have OEM xenons in the Jetta, and I often get flashed, even with the self levelers. If there was manual adjustment in there then I'd wind them down a click or two.
Sod's law lol

[Puresilk]

The reflector lamps with Hids seem to cause the most problems to drivers and blinding them, however those kits are probably 55w Kits, I fitted 35w Kit with H7R bulbs correctly aligned and have never been flashed by oncoming driver.

As a matter of fact new cars with halogens I have seen with super bright bulbs have caused me to be blinded and these are standard fit, some newer cars with factory Xenons can be blinding also as they are very bright in some cars.

I'm also not quite sure what offence you would be commiting if stopped by a traffic officer , as someone pointed out what is the actual offence or law broken ?

[darich]

I'm also not quite sure what offence you would be commiting if stopped by a traffic officer , as someone pointed out what is the actual offence or law broken ?

Presumably law states you must have headlamps that comply with a certain law (I'm guessing this because HIDs are sold as off road since they do not comply with ECE Regulation 98).
Now a cop would need to be pretty **** if he could quote the correct act although I'm sure there are a few out there.
Vehicles must comply with C&U regulations as stated above, but also Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations. Not surprised if there was another couple of acts.

I think that given the DfT has publicly declared their interpretation of the law, you'd need to be prepared for a big fight if you interpreted it another way and wanted to take them on.

I think we're all agreed that passing an MOT and being legal is two different things.
And unless someone can find a link or some example of legal aftermarket HIDs without the washer and levelling system, I think we all need to assume they're illegal.

I've fitted one to my bike and it clearly doesn't have either a washer system or levelling system. MOT not due until April next year though.

[Vikingraider]

As regards the requirement for washers and self leveling, I asked VOSA and they replied with the details of the 2000 Lumen requirement. VOSA clearly know more about the situation than the DFT who have had their "interpretation" of the law on their website for a good few years now with no real grounding to their statements.

Some apparent examples of Xenons without washers / levelers are the Honda S2000 and the Mazda MX5. I don't know personally, but those are often brought to the table during these discussions.

[darich]

Honda S2000 all have washer system - quite an obvious jet in front of each headlamp.

Mazda Mx5.....never seen one with HIDs.

[Vikingraider]

Honda S2000 all have washer system - quite an obvious jet in front of each headlamp.


This one doesn't... Link. (http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201216464857370/sort/default/usedcars/model/s2000/make/honda/postcode/ts251pw/page/3/radius/1500?logcode=p) Nor this one... Link. (http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201152438772322/sort/default/usedcars/model/s2000/make/honda/postcode/ts251pw/page/3/radius/1500?logcode=p)


Mazda Mx5.....never seen one with HIDs.

Mazda MX5 with Xenons, and again no washers... Link. (http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201222474285308/sort/default/usedcars/model/mx-5/make/mazda/page/1/radius/1500/postcode/ts251pw/keywords/xenon?logcode=p)

[Eshrules]

children, if this is going to descend into a *** for tat I'll close the thread now. I'm tired of seeing this subject debated, it's been discussed until the cows came home and sat on the fat lady singing.

The law is an *** and HID's are yet another grey area people try to take advantage of, just the same as de-cats, big bore exhausts and any other current trending modification.

Personally, I'd rather stick with what was installed at the factory - it's perfectly safe as it is.

[Sam]

This one doesn't... Link. (http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201216464857370/sort/default/usedcars/model/s2000/make/honda/postcode/ts251pw/page/3/radius/1500?logcode=p) Nor this one... Link. (http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201152438772322/sort/default/usedcars/model/s2000/make/honda/postcode/ts251pw/page/3/radius/1500?logcode=p)

I suspect they are both JDM imports - headlight washers are just one of the differences across the different markets.

[Vikingraider]

children, if this is going to descend into a *** for tat I'll close the thread now. I'm tired of seeing this subject debated, it's been discussed until the cows came home and sat on the fat lady singing.

The law is an *** and HID's are yet another grey area people try to take advantage of, just the same as de-cats, big bore exhausts and any other current trending modification.

Personally, I'd rather stick with what was installed at the factory - it's perfectly safe as it is.

Personally, me as well. That's why I have factory fit Xenons.

As for *** for tat etc. as far as I'm concerned it's a sociable discussion. Also, as far as the search function will allow there's only one mild reference to the 2000 Lumen rule which I mentioned, so it's hardly been discussed to death.

[Vikingraider]

I suspect they are both JDM imports - headlight washers are just one of the differences across the different markets.

Perhaps. In fact one of them even says so in the listing and I didn't notice first time round. :approve:

[darich]

Perhaps. In fact one of them even says so in the listing and I didn't notice first time round. :approve:

you beat me to it regarding the import.
In fact I had a look on wikipedia - the JDM version on wiki has a large fancy splitter/front bumper which is not fitted to the autotrader one. If I was interested that would make me suspicious.

I'd also agree that it's hardly *** for tat - no animosity on either side and simply trying to clear up what the position is.

Like you, I also stick with factory fitted so my car has bi-xenons fitted from new.
Motorbike is different and I recently fitted one to that. Not had a chance to ride in the dark or dusk yet to see how much better it is though

[Puresilk]

Just had mt MOT today and it passed, I asked the MOT whether HIDS would fail the MOT (obviously once it passed) and he said that 'as long as the beam pattern is correct it will pass' now you can interpret that in whatever way you like.