Running in Method

[jdwoodbury]

I have never had a new diesel engined car before, do manufacturers still insist on a particular running in period?

My though are to stress the engine moderatly once at operating temperate and vary the speed, never full throttle or labour the engine unduly (i.e. 5th gear taxi style). I will be asking Audi to book me in for a simple oil chance within the few few hundered miles as I believe there is a fair amount of swarf in the oil after the piston rings have sealed against the cylinder wall.

Has anyone done the same, were you recommended a certain running in period?

Regards,

JD

[jbanfie]

Here's an answer from honestjohn co uk, interestingly he recommends keeping the factory fill oil in for a year!

I think the engine management programs help a lot nowadays, for example, my wifes new bmw engined mini diesel will not rev past 2500 rpm with no load - so in neutral, foot on the floor, the engine picks up to 2500 and just sits there!




Q
RUNNING IN A DIESEL: What's the best way to run-in a diesel engine?


A
Leave factory fill of oil for the first year or 10,000 miles. For the first 1,000 miles do not exceed 3,000rpm, but make sure you reach 3,000rpm regularly.
If running in on a motorway or autobahn, regularly vary the revs. So (in mph) cruise at 70 for 15 minutes, cruise at 80 for 15 minutes, cruise at 75 for 15 minutes, cruise at 60 for 15 minutes, cruise at 90 for 15 minutes, etc.
For the next 1,000 miles (to 2,000 miles) do not exceed 3,500rpm, but make sure you reach 3,500rpm regularly. For the next 1,000 miles (to 3,000 miles) do not exceed 4,000rpm, but make sure you reach 4,000rpm regularly. For the next 1,000 miles (to 4,000 miles) do not exceed 4,500rpm, but make sure you reach 4,500rpm at least a couple of times a week. After that, no limit, but make sure you continue to hit 4,500rpm through the gears several times a week. The benefit of this is it helps to self clean the injectors, it blows any accumulated soot out of the exhaust system and it helps to free off the piston rings, making the engine more efficient and less likely to use engine oil.
The latest bain of a diesel driver's life is the Diesel Particulate Filter. On passive cycle the DPF will require the car to regularly be driven significant distances at 2,000rpm plus for the DPF to get hot enough to regenerate and burn off the particulates in it.

DPFs also have an 'active' cycle where additinal fuel is injected into the combustion chambers to creater hotter than normal exhaust gases to burn off particulates in the DPF. However, this does not always work and the extra fuel can instead find its way into the engine sump, contaminating the lube oil and sometimes leading to such a rise in sump oil level that the engine can start to run uncontrollably on its sump oil and will self-destruct.

Peugeot/Citroen/Ford diesel engines don't need to get quite as hot as diesels in other makes because they use an additive to help regenerate the DPF. This used to be added to a tank under the back seat, but is now contained in a bladder that needs to be repalce around every 100,000 miles.

[robbyg]

jbanfie
I have done roughly the same as you suggest on my last few new cars. Dealers are not keen to change oil earlier than the specified frequencies even if you offer to pay. I assume modern engines are design on the assumption that any initial swarf etc can be deal with by the filter, i have heard the you actually need that initial wear to properly bed the engine in. Volvo told me early oil change would invalidate warranty!

Also, think about demonstrator cars (or hire cars), these might be driven hard and red lined from brand new. That proves there isnt really too much to worry about. You can't tell when you drive them and these make it perfectly well to the 2nd hand market. I guess the engine might only last 150k miles instead of 130k but probably other things will scrap the car before that anyway.

I plan to be careful not to labour the engine (impossible as its auto) or rev it high esp from when cold, or use full throttle (much) for the the first 1-2k miles, and not to sit at constant motorway revs for too long, can always drop from 8th to 7th every 10mins or so during first 1000 miles.

Thats my opinion, suspect this thread might get long.....

[jbanfie]

Yeah but long threads are cool and often wonder off topic - any news on when your car is actually arriving - see!

The trouble with modern diesel's is not the life of pistion rings, big ends etc they sorted those issues years ago, it's all the other garb, high pressure fuel pumps, turbos, abs units etc etc etc

My mate with his VW Touran 2007 - which should be bomb proof - has replaced all three of those as he passed 80,000 miles - yikes and yet my other mate with a 1997 Volve V70 D5 has passed 200,000 miles with none of the above failing - probably because the fuel pump pressure is much lower as Common Rail was not around in 1997.

Isn't it funny how manufactures don't publish long life/range testing results - but again that's another topic.

I think I've concluded if your gonna do a lot of miles, get a cheapish car and recognise you're gonna throw it away. My Audi will probably be doing around 6,000 a year so I'm planning on keeping it for the life of my kids at private school about 10 years because I won't be able to afford another one!

[robbyg]

LOL, drifting off already :).
Similarly, doubt i will do more than 9-10k a year, majority in long journeys, and assuming i like the A6 as much as i want to then it will be at least a 4 hopefully 5 year keeper, by which time my kid (by then kids) will be at school and affording another becomes an issue too.
No further news yet, i guess its on the boat now. Hopefully end of this month or early june. Problem now is getting my xc60 sold for a decent price.

[jbanfie]

Drifting further,

I've actually got a test drive in an 204PS S-line A7 this afternoon - I've never tested anything and was prepared to take the bi-turbo engine on faith - probably a good call - but I do want to test the s-line suspension as many report it's too hard. Anyway my dealer failed to arrange a car to test, so I rang them yesterday and explained that I didn't want to fly into a rage about it, but was aware that I probably couldn't change my spec for too much longer.

As a consequence they have determined that this is the last week I can change the spec, and they've got a demonstrator from somewhere for me to play with - I'm giving them 6 out of 10 for quality of service at the moment - Lexus loads better I have to say.

I'll report back on my play time.

[robbyg]

Assume you have read this:
http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?120438-A6-SE-vs-S-Line-or-air-suspension

See if you can drive one then the other straight away, best way to compare. Quite different though both are fine.
Personally i went for the air suspension, best of both worlds. Just depends if you can justify £2k which is a lot of money.

[jdwoodbury]

Back on topic....

I am going to check with Audi on this in regards to the oil service pre-1000 miles. I suppose it is a mute point for me as I doubt I will keep the car longer than 3yrs anyhow (if I did it would be some sort of record!)

[Blackmore Spur]

Friend of mine who worked for Audi at decent techno level says running in not an issue in modern cars, certainly not quality cars like Audi; his advice is drive it hard from early on right through rev range. Particularly important with a diesel that can become more sluggish later if engine not pushed during first few thousand miles. Not talking about flooring it at every opportunity but just properly driving it not poodling cautiously around like Mr Bean!

[robbyg]

Any idea of the theory why it can become sluggish later if not pushed early? Interesting.

[Blackmore Spur]

Any idea of the theory why it can become sluggish later if not pushed early? Interesting.

It was my first new car, first Audi so asked about running in and got the above advice backed up by a detailed technical explanation ... That went way over my head! However, theory backed up by other friend who still works on developing cars for Ford so have applied it for first 4.5k miles in good faith

[Allroad_anth]

Don't forget you are not just running in the engine. The transmission, diff, brakes and everything else are new too.
Don't lug it down ever until warm, or the temp needle at least moved off the stop. Never switch it off after a hard run until you have let it idle a few minutes to let the turbo and everything else cool down a bit.
Some cars just want to go from new, others are tight for a couple of thousand miles.
All modern engines need work to bed the rings in, otherwise they will drink oil. This is how the long drain interval works, you are adding fresh oil to replace the burned.
Don't use cheap supermarket fuel, consider adding a little 2 stroke oil on the first few fills just to add a little lubrication.
Once it feels loosened up, probably not less than 1000-1500 miles, give it some stick! But still be gentle....

[nealeb]

Any idea of the theory why it can become sluggish later if not pushed early? Interesting.

I did a bit of googling on this subject a while back during a similar discussion. The one article I did find that was a cut above the "This bloke in a pub told me and he must know 'cos his mate knows Lewis Hamilton's hairdresser" usual standard was talking mainly about bedding in the piston rings. The problem is that if you use the engine too gently, the rings tend to get polished before they bed in properly, and the end result is that they don't seal quite so well. Drive harder to build up more cylinder pressure and the rings actually wear in against the cylinder bores and while that might sound counter-productive, the result is a better lifelong seal, so less ring blow-by contaminating the oil and causing more wear, better cylinder pressures longterm, and more performance. However, the article seemed to be a bit more about performance and less about engine life so you have to take that into account. Personally - I'm not sure whether or not to believe it without some solid evidence based on a number of engines tested over a long period. I have never found anything like that published (although I would be really pleased to see it).

Personally, I did the first few thousand miles in E mode although I now tend to use Comfort mode. I'm more concerned about the DPF than engine life, though, as I'm a bit of a bimbler although I do use the paddles every so often to drop a gear or two for overtaking. But almost by definition that is for short bursts only, so I'm waiting to see the DPF warning light come on...

[robbyg]

Today i have actually read the manual ready to pick car up on sunday!

It says (abridged) "new vehicle should be run in over 1500Km.
for first 1000Km:
do not exceed 2/3 max rpm (3400 for me)
do not use full throttle
do not tow

from 1000-1500Km:
you can gradually increase rpm

after 1500Km drive at moderate speeds especially when engine is cold.

How the vehicle is driven over fors 1500Km influences engine quality and increases potential mileage by reducing wear and tear.

Avoid driving with the engine speed too low"

Thats it. Basically, let it warm up and dont go mad i think!

[Allroad_anth]

Don't forget, the guys loading it onto the boat and various transporters won't have cared too much...

[robbyg]

Nor i fear will the mechanics who have got their hands on the first bitdi they have had in the garage.
Hopefully they are too bored to notice...

[Allroad_anth]

You could always invest in a roadhawk camera. Obviously will only be fitted after you take delivery. But there are a couple of vids on YouTube of mechanics 'testing' cars........