Efficiency setting

[Goatistuta]

Has anybody noticed significant improvements in fuel economy by selecting 'efficiency' mode? I haven't noticed any significant benefits.

[KAM]

I'm looking at things the other way around. I have a multitronic box which I tend to drive in 'E' all the time. Occasionally I will blip the selector lever down in to 'S' for overtaking and then blip back to 'E' again afterwards. There doesn't seem much doubt that the indicated consumption takes a hit the more this happens.

Everything in 'E' is very much more sedate and relaxed. Say you're in cruise control at 50mph and push the setpoint up to 60mph - the car will gradually accelerate up to that point. In other modes the ramp-up between 50 and 60 (or any other pair of speeds) is more rapid. It seems intuitive that 'E' uses less fuel. Of course, you can always stamp your foot to the floor in 'E' mode and try to overcome this reluctance but the car does seem to be giving you a "better opportunity" to conserve fuel by delaying change downs etc. I think that's all we can hope from cars - they won't magically transform fuel-thirsty driving to fuel-efficient driving. We always retain the power to ruin that! :)

[ianfarnham]

Its definitely more sedate (slower) in efficiency =it locks you into a higher gear ratio.

Something I've always wondered is if whether kickdown in Economy is also slower? Whilst I've been content to switch in and out of efficiency mode I'm always a bit wary about leaving in this state for other drivers of my car (who wouldnt know how to select E) but who might decide to overtake and then discover the power is no longer there...... I guess I should have got the stopwatch out.

[KAM]

who might decide to overtake and then discover the power is no longer there Yep, that's the way to live an interesting life! Get in to a strange car and wait until you've made the decision to overtake somebody before finding out how well the car accelerates and handles. I guess these people are steadily selecting themselves out of the gene pool.

[ianfarnham]

Thats NOT what I was meaning and thanks for a frivolous response. My example was my wife driving a car she has driven many times and then I switch it to Eco and the car doesnt perform as it did when it was last driven.

[AZO1]

Some important points raised. My limited experience (only took delivery of car yesterday) of a manual 3.0 TDI is that responsiveness in Dynamic setting is appreciably better than in Auto and I am already favouring Dynamic (safer option) if I am likely to be overtaking etc. Will no doubt try Eco for long motorway runs (dealer said something like Eco operates at about 80% of normal engine performance - not sure what is 'normal' given the various settings or how accurate/reliable that info is

[nealeb]

It's definitely a more sedate mode, although I'm not sure how much the gear change points vary between E and D - haven't spent much time out of E yet! Haven't even done the first 1000 miles in this one yet...

But as mentioned, it does seem to damp the cruise control response, and I thought that it did a few other things in the background, like modify auxiliary heater and air conditioning settings in some way.

In my previous car, I tended to leave it in E and lie back and enjoy it. If I needed a bit extra for overtaking, I used the paddles to downshift to a more appropriate gear in advance so there was never any delay or uncertainty about kickdown or whatever.

I'm not sure whether it's standard or part of the keyless-entry system, but coding the car settings (including E/D/S etc) to the key is useful to avoid the problem mentioned above - that the car may not be as a second driver expected. Doesn't help much if you lend your key to another driver, admittedly!

[Timothy Nathan]

Is "coding to the key" something you choose to do? If so how? I thought it was just supposed to happen.

[KAM]

@ianfarnham
I'm assuming your reference to a frivolous response referred to my comment.
My comment wasn't intended to be frivolous - it was deadly serious. At what point does a driver give up responsibility for checking basic settings on the vehicle before setting off - is the boot open, what gear is it in, is there a flat tyre? All of these have visual indicators on the dash. Checking what mode the transmission is in comes in to that category as far as I'm concerned. You obviously agree that the consequences of this may be significant otherwise you wouldn't have raised the issue. My view is that when other drivers undertake journeys they have to acknowledge the same risks and take appropriate actions to save themselves and me from potential harm.

[nealeb]

KAM - I agree with you that it should be the driver's responsibility to check settings before leaving. In my case, the drivers are just my wife and myself (and the dealer workshop occasionally - but they can look after themselves!) so using the right key is good enough, but anyone else should check. After all, this particular setting is obvious as soon as you put it into "D/S" and the E1 setting shows on the DIS. And if you don't know what this means, you aren't familiar enough with the car to make assumptions about it and its performance?

As for "coding to the key", I have to say that I'm unclear about exactly how and when this occurs. It's another area where reading the manual leaves you slightly uncertain about how it all works, and as my wife has not driven my car with her own key yet, I haven't seen exactly what does get reset in practice - or even which key is used if we both have keys with us when the car is started!

[Timothy Nathan]

BigAid came to see me on Sunday. He does not exaggerate, he is big.

He got into the driver's seat and moved it back the long way he needed, and when we got out we locked the door without resetting it.

It then took several journeys before I could persuade the car to "forget" that Aidan was in it. No matter what I did, it would put the seat all the way back when I unlocked.

It has stopped doing so now, but not as a result of my doing anything different.

A good understanding of how the memory works would be great.

Maybe a mod should split this topic and put convenience key memory into its own thread?

[ianfarnham]

I hear what you all say - and I guess (before the present cars) you all rigorously checked your oil/water/brake fluid and tyre pressures weekly / daily or before leaving. Whilst I fully agree it is the drivers responsibility i dont agree that every driver will be fully recognise the implications. Try asking your partner or other drivers if they understand the full significance of the E on the dashboard rather than the standard Auto mode ?. But my point was - if you go to kickdown or full acceleration (in economy) does the engine switch to max power in optimum gear ratio (ie acceleration is equal to Auto mode) in which case the car always takes you to the safest option?.

[ti rich]

On my lowly 2.0 TDi manual the efficiency mode makes about 4 or 5 mpg difference. But it's very flat and when overtaking I have to plan ahead and manually put it into dynamic mode. It really needs a dynamic mode button on the steering wheel.

Why can't the programmable buttoned made to do this?

Pressing the accelerator fully doesn't give maximum power.

[KAM]

On completely the other side of the efficiency/acceleration coin, I have a colleague who built his own Caterham 7. He openly admits he was terrified when he actually started driving it. The least additional travel on the throttle jumps your speed by about 20mph+ instantaneously - it's like there is no intermediate speed. One minute he's doing 25mph in a quiet housing estate - next nanosecond, because of a minor twitch in his ankle, he's wrestling this thing doing 50mph and heading for someone's hedge! He moves between that at weekends and his Renault during the week and he seriously has to re-educate his brain and foot with each change. He snorts derisively at multitronic heated LED sat-nav parking aids and says I should try a real car some time.

[Timothy Nathan]

I have also been at the receiving end of a serious amount of derision about the automatics from purists. Different Strokes, I say, but they think that I am the Devil Incarnate for having even lights that switch on for themselves in tunnels.

[BigAid]

AFAIR,

The memory key setting is configured in the MMI & you have the buttons on the driver side door.

When you open the door with your first key and change all the settings to what you want, it should then automatically remember them all as you left them when you get out and lock it.

The issue is when you and A.N.Other person with a key for the same vehicle approach and one of you opens the vehicle then the other drives it and changes things as it will be in effect programming the key.

I thought you had to program the seat position or each key by selecting SET on the driver door and changing the seat - now think it does it automatically


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[Timothy Nathan]

Certainly my experience from Sunday is that it is automatic.

[nealeb]

I've been hitting the "Set" button every time I tweak the seat a little - are you saying that I don't need to? I really must see what happens when I use the second key sometime!

[Blackmore Spur]

All interesting reading. At salesman instruction I had stuck with Automatic for my first 2.5k miles. Been playing with settings over last week; it's dynamic every time for me from now on, much more responsive and fun with little loss of MPG. Comfort setting fine on long run but lacking oomph on motorway overtaking.... Eco saves little and is dull with very little MPG benefit and seriously rubbish overtaking

[Timothy Nathan]

Isn't the whole point of Auto to mean that it decides for you what you need, according to conditions and driving style?

[Blackmore Spur]

I thought Auto would be best overall bet and did something clever in switching between modes as you drive; was certainly what I was told by salesman. However, certainly doesn't seem to be the case for me in my 2.0 TDi SLine as per my previous message

[KAM]

I love the way this thread has bounced around efficiency, driver awareness, key settings, and back to efficiency again - we're a right old gossip group!

Anyway, efficiency ...
In a two-month-old 4K miles car I've now tried driving for a couple of days in 'dynamic' as opposed to my normal 'efficiency'. My only conclusion is that I must be a leaden-footed oaf and 'E' is there to save me from my own incompetence
:(
With no objective measurement or direct control experiments I think 'dynamic' knocks off about 6-10mpg on what I achieve in 'efficiency'. That is made worse by the fact that I probably don't get the handling and performance enjoyment from 'dynamic' to compensate - I'm just not that kind of driver. Of course it may also be that the routes and traffic I encounter on my regular journeys are particularly well-suited to 'efficiency'. Or maybe it's some other mystical Audi factor in the wing-mirrors or interior lighting intensity or the size of SDHC card I use for music or ...
I'll continue the experiment for a while yet to see how things shake out.

[nealeb]

Will the Efficiency setting ever let the engine work hard enough to regenerate the DPF by itself? It certainly gives the car a very laid-back feel.

[Goatistuta]

Interesting comments following my initial question. Been driving my 2.0tdi multi S-line for a week in Eco mode and seen quite a difference in mpg, achieving a max of 57mpg on a drive from Liverpool to Manchester during rush hour. This is about 15 mpg better than my previous 2009 model 2.0 multi LeMans Avant on a similar journey.

[Timothy Nathan]

I had been quite sceptical about the dangers of leaving it in E until I tried it today. I was on a slip road into a motorway paralleling an HGV, so put my foot down to ease ahead and nothing happened in quite a spectacular way, even kicking down. I had to go into S and drop some gears to get out of trouble.

I did find E incredibly economical (57 mpg at 70 mph over an extended period with a large roof box) but I put into Auto before any junction and for non-motorway driving.

I would agree that leaving it in E for another driver would not be clever.

[KAM]

Oh well, it seems I stand alone. Perhaps the consensus is that 'E' is a forbidden selection that Audi should not have incorporated in the design. If it's the cause of even experienced owners getting in to trouble what hope have tyros got. It makes me really fearful for drivers of much smaller cars who can't rely on further brute force selections once they've encountered problems.

[Timothy Nathan]

It's a question of expectation. In my wife's utterly gutless car I would have hung back behind the HGV. The difficulty arises if you expect some umph and it doesn't present.

I also don't think that it should be designed out...but maybe that it should default out of E into Auto and needs be put back.

[Blackmore Spur]

Did semi Scientific test from home to destination 25 miles away, mixture of mostly motorway but some tricky windy country roads. Out in dynamic, home in Eco. Driving same style, both ways similar weight of traffic. Was warm day yesterday here so no issue about engine temp as variable to factor in.

I drive 2.0 TDi SLine on 20 " wheels and have done just short of 3k miles in two months.

Dynamic did 42 MPG. Eco saved me nearly 5 MPG @ overall average of 47 mpg and would save more on long motorway journey.

Sounds fine but lack of overtake power is noticeable issue. I would use Eco on steady very long run on motorway with little variation or traffic. However,switching from Eco to other needs you to look down assuming screen not already in use for Sat Nav.... Too fiddly to be realistic in real day to day driving

My conclusion is that good steady feature to use very carefully in right conditions... If fully aware of its limitations. Button to engage and disengage on steering wheel would make it real safe money saving feature

[KAM]

...to use very carefully in right conditions... If fully aware of its limitations. ... But isn't this true of 'cars' as a whole?

I feel as though I must be seen as if I'm arguing for arguing's sake or taking a more righteous than thou standpoint, but it's honestly neither of these. I just feel that we've surrounded ourselves with so many safety mechanisms and systems in cars that when we do encounter danger it is somehow seen as the vehicle's fault - "Why did it let me do that thing?"

I remember reading a suggestion many years ago that to make traffic safer all round you should strip out all the drivers' airbags and replace them with a permanently extended 12" steel spike on each steering wheel pointing right at the driver's chest. Now, let's see how smoothly everyone drives with that fitted ... ?

[Timothy Nathan]

You are describing the very well respected theory, mainly developed by Prof Adams of London University, called Risk Compensation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_compensation).

And that theory does indeed make your point for you, that as you make an activity safer people will compensate and take more risks, keeping the risk of injury or death pretty much constant, which, on the face of it, is a bit pointless, but, and it's a big but, there are two other factors:


Your mission profile is improved. If you drove a 2CV with a spike on the steering wheel you would get from London to Edinburgh just as safely as in a fully loaded Audi, but it would take several days rather than hours.
Risk is displaced from the person with the safe vehicle onto those without, notably the most vulnerable, pedestrians.

[KAM]

Thanks Timothy - that's a genuinely interesting link. (And by 'genuinely interesting' I don't mean I'm reading it as 'something that proves what I was saying'!)
I didn't realise there was any research material addressing what to me has been no more than a gut feel so far. I don't think I could have expressed it in those terms.
Brilliant addition :beerchug: - really appropriate.

[Timothy Nathan]

Not wanting to creep the thread too much, but there is another theory, called Risk Homeostasis, that people actually need a certain amount of risk in their lives - hence bungy jumping etc - and will gather that risk to themselves.

Unfortunately for the rest of us, that risk taking often also exposes innocent bystanders to higher levels of risk. Boy racers in cars are a very good example, though there are plenty of others, such as binge drinkers.

But anyway, back to gearboxes....

[Blackmore Spur]

Appreciate the theory which I was already familiar with.....but with greatest respect, as one of a small breed in camera drenched Essex with zero points for speeding ever I feel justified in exploring suggestions through this forum how to make fantastic technology even better. I love my Audi, it drives safely and beautifully and no I do not feel any more inclined to speed or take risks because it is so technology rich and safe.... the spike is not there but I still drive safety, sensibly... And very comfortably and safely.

[nealeb]

One thing that surprises me about this thread is that no-one seems to use the paddle change. I leave mine in E mode, but if I'm setting up for an overtake then a couple of tweaks on the LH paddle and I'm more than ready to go. Hands don't even need to leave the wheel. Depends on speeds and gears, of course, but in general, even in a more "dynamic" mode, it's still not going to change down until after you have needed it to - after you have started to accelerate. Use the paddle and revs are up/gear is down before you actually hit the loud pedal.

If it's just a quick overtake and I then want to go back to full-auto mode rather than manual, then it's usually a quick flick of the gear lever left and right again but by that time, you are back on your own side of the road. Or you can wait for the gearbox to realise that you don't want manual mode any more, but that is generally holds the lower gear longer than needed.

[Timothy Nathan]

Does E only affect the gear box, then? It doesn't reduce power on the engine? I thought it did.

[MFGF]

Does E only affect the gear box, then? It doesn't reduce power on the engine? I thought it did.

It affects the engine too - it is available with manual transmission cars as well as automatic.


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[nealeb]

That seems to suggest that it that it certainly does something with engine mapping. When you drop down a couple of gears via the appropriate paddle, the whole thing becomes much more responsive. Whether that is because the engine is now in a very different part of the rev range, or selecting gears manually overrides the E setting temporarily (seems plausible but I'm not sure how you might do this with a pure manual gearbox), I don't know. Certainly the effect is that the car becomes much more ready to accelerate with no gear-change or other lag, which is what you're looking for at this point.

[rizday]

Something that's always bothered me and stopped me using the paddles more is that after you have dropped down via the paddles you either have to wait for the gearbox to catch up and return to auto or shift the gear lever left and right. Would be great to be able to reset via the paddles, pulling both together perhaps?

[MFGF]

That seems to suggest that it that it certainly does something with engine mapping. When you drop down a couple of gears via the appropriate paddle, the whole thing becomes much more responsive. Whether that is because the engine is now in a very different part of the rev range, or selecting gears manually overrides the E setting temporarily (seems plausible but I'm not sure how you might do this with a pure manual gearbox), I don't know. Certainly the effect is that the car becomes much more ready to accelerate with no gear-change or other lag, which is what you're looking for at this point.

In lower gears, the engine has to exert less effort to increase the velocity of the car (provided you remain within the working power band of the engine), so the car seems more responsive. I don't think changing gear has any impact on the selected mode - it will remain in E until you choose a different mode.

MF.

[nealeb]

Indeed - the torque curve, to a first approximation, is pretty much flat across the rev range so changing down does not give more engine torque but the change in gear ratio gives more mechanical advantage and hence more torque at the rear wheels, and it's that torque that gives acceleration. My previous post was a bit misleading in that respect.

However, I don't know how you can find out (except by asking Audi or trying it on a dynamometer) whether the engine mapping changes to give more torque as well when you move out of E. Does selecting M count as moving out of E, and if so, does it change to the equivalent of D or S? That's the bit I'm not sure about. If I were designing this car, I would probably take the approach that "driver has selected M, so presumably they're being a bit keen, so I should map everything except gears as if S were selected." But I'm not an Audi design engineer:)

[KAM]

more torque at the rear wheels Wow, I didn't realise this thread was all about how fast you could go in reverse! :)

[nealeb]

..as well as the front wheels for us Quattro drivers!

[KAM]

Damn you, Quattroman, I'll get you some day!

[Timothy Nathan]

I was talking to an Audi engineer today and he said that if you indicate to the system that you need "emergency power" when in E, it will change automatically to Dynamic and give you everything it has got.

[MFGF]

I was talking to an Audi engineer today and he said that if you indicate to the system that you need "emergency power" when in E, it will change automatically to Dynamic and give you everything it has got.

However would one go about doing that, I wonder? Is there a secret "Emergency power!" command in the voice activation menu perhaps? Three short, three long and thee short pulses on the cruise stalk? A diarrhoea sensor in the base of the driver's seat? It's intriguing! ;-)


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[Timothy Nathan]

I know you are not being altogether serious, but there are quite a few references in the documentation to the car interpreting your gestures.

My assumption in this case is that if you kick-down, or in the manual accelerate hard, the engine will be placed into Dynamic.

[MFGF]

I know you are not being altogether serious, but there are quite a few references in the documentation to the car interpreting your gestures.

My assumption in this case is that if you kick-down, or in the manual accelerate hard, the engine will be placed into Dynamic.

The other fact you need to take into account is that my C7 doesn't arrive for three weeks, so the documentation is just a wonderful fancy of anticipation :)

Just being serious for one moment... Are you really saying that full throttle in a manual car would trigger a switch out of E? I find that a little disconcerting...

MF.

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[Timothy Nathan]

It's difficult to say. The manual definitely says that in kick-down it is reconfigured to give full power, but manual isn't mentioned.

[ti rich]

Here is a thought, I have been playing with Efficiency and Comfort modes and once on the motorway on cruise it makes no difference at all. In fact using efficiency mode means the car was unable to maintain speed up some hills as power was restricted.

Has anyone else noticed this?

[Splash]

I was talking to an Audi engineer today and he said that if you indicate to the system that you need "emergency power" when in E, it will change automatically to Dynamic and give you everything it has got.
I hope nealeb's reading this as that's the glaring omission in his overtaking procedure. He probably does it without thinking about it but it's by no means hard-wired into all Audi drivers.;)

I searched this thread looking for a definitive answer on precisely what changes occur in the "Efficiency" mode. Whilst I can feel the difference, and I know the HVAC goes into a more efficient mode, I don't know what the other changes are. For us allroad drivers there's certainly no aero advantage as the car doesn't drop to its lowest level - an oversight that could easily be rectified with a software update if you are reading this Audi.

The thread veered off at a tangent into the profiles attributed to the two (or more?) driver keys. This got me thinking that although my wife and I share cars, we normally use our individual keys (unless she's lost her's again). I left her with the car that I have set up an individual profile for using my key. I now wonder whether this just relates to my key or to the car.

So I'd like Audi to update the rather nebulous manual with a couple of definitive tables:

1) All settings affected by "Efficiency" for all models including allroad
2) Ditto for different keys.

If anyone knows some of these answers or can direct me to a different thread please oblige...

[wja96]

I don't know if it's the same on other engine/gearbox combinations, but on the BiTDi if you pull the gear selector back and release it then it puts the car into S mode and it takes off like a scalded cat.

On the BiTDI E-mode is VERY lazy indeed.

[Splash]

Same on my 245 and it's a handy way to override the other settings. The cars have been around long enough that you'd think that Audi or dealers would have been asked this question. Surely it's a potential selling point anyway even if just a small percentage of customers ask the question.

[pumpsmynads]

From my memory of events the last time I used E, it most certainly does not give full power in kick down. It is especially noticeable for those of us with the 2.0 litre multitronic. It feels as though it's dropped to about 120bhp.

[Scott K]

Something that's always bothered me and stopped me using the paddles more is that after you have dropped down via the paddles you either have to wait for the gearbox to catch up and return to auto or shift the gear lever left and right. Would be great to be able to reset via the paddles, pulling both together perhaps?
On my car, you pull the gear lever back and it goes into whatever mode you were using before the manual change. I almost never put the gear lever to the left for manual as I just use the paddles (pretty rare though).
I seldom use E as I haven't noticed an appreciable difference in mpg.

[ukgroucho]

On my car, you pull the gear lever back and it goes into whatever mode you were using before the manual change. I almost never put the gear lever to the left for manual as I just use the paddles (pretty rare though).
I seldom use E as I haven't noticed an appreciable difference in mpg.

You can also knock it left into M and back to auto to drop back into your previous auto mode (D or S).

Pulling back into S with the BiTdi - and I'm sure the 245 - does indeed make the engine and gear changes more 'lively'... but it does not adjust all the other 'stuff' in my experience. Suspension (air suspension specifically) does not drop to lowest setting and I don't think the steering 'profile' is changed. In a car with air suspension pulling back into S (assuming you are driving in Comfort or have individual settings which are not maxed towards dynamic - and I think Splash does have everything dialed down, I don't) is fine for overtaking and short bursts but you definitely feel less connected - ride is higher, steering a bit more vague - if you start to press on along windy roads - so it's no substitute for shifting to Dynamic mode.
Of course you can be in dynamic and pull back when in S to get to D...

[Splash]

On my car, you pull the gear lever back and it goes into whatever mode you were using before the manual change. I almost never put the gear lever to the left for manual as I just use the paddles (pretty rare though).
I seldom use E as I haven't noticed an appreciable difference in mpg.
You should have left your ladles in Scott. Made me laugh and might work well with my heated steering wheel. :biglaugh:

[Scott K]

It's this bloody predictive typing! Also, don't mention heated steering wheel. I ordered tech pack advanced, BOSE, heated seats front and rear, 4 zone climate, storage pack, active differential, memory seats,,75l tank and advanced key but when I mentioned getting an heated steering wheel the wife went nuts. It effectively came down to getting a pair of gloves instead of spending £200 on the steering wheel!! Definitely getting one on the next car but will keep it quiet this time.

[Splash]

Those boxing gloves of yours are incompatible with smartphones. Must be getting old as HSW is a quick-fix for this time of year when short burst of heat fools our brain without going the whole hog with the heated seats. A bit like a warm shower jet on the back of your neck recalibrates your hypothalamus (I believe).

Another table for Audi to consider would be those options that the shortcut/macro/asterisk steering wheel button can affect. Mine can only activate the HSW, but it would be handy if it could be reprogrammed through MMI/VCDS for the 6+ months each year when it's not required.

[nevbadger99]

It's difficult to say. The manual definitely says that in kick-down it is reconfigured to give full power, but manual isn't mentioned.

I've got a manual: in E mode, the engine feels like it's lost a chunk of power and you have to push much further on the throttle to get any amount of oomph.

It actually works quite well in heavy traffic, makes it easier to set off more smoothly and pootle along in jams.

When you put your foot right down (virtually all the way), it does liberate some extra power, doesn't feel like the full beans but definitely an improvement. Going back to Dynamic seems like a different car.

The only other thing I have noticed is that it turns the fan blowers down.

[M1tchy]

I have noticed a 2mpg increase in fuel when in Eco mode.


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[ukgroucho]

I have noticed a 2mpg increase in fuel when in Eco mode. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

- In what kind of driving?
- "Seriously" you have a BiTdi...why did you buy it :)

[fest0r]

When traveling at 155mph in Newbury… 8mpg Vs 10mpg :biglaugh:

[Splash]

You've clearly not been watching Motorway Cops because the epicentre is Chesterfield (allegedly) , which I reckon is where Groucho is from too on the basis of probability. ;)
...if not down at his local "The Red Herring"

[NewAudi]

I also have seen an improvement in the fuel consumption when using the Effecience mode. Only tried as it's kinda borning when you normally have all that power on tap in the BiTdi!

Will probably work great in winter through, IF a lot of snow and ice are about.