Just bought 1.9tdi 130 and it seems sluggish up hill...struggle to beat lorries

[conkers]

I have just bought the car and love it. It drives well generally, 50+mph but struggles uphill and seems to accelerate generally quite slowly. It tops out at 85-90mph on the flat. My misses has a honda Accord CDTI 138 BHP and it smashes my audi. To be honest it feels more like 90bhp (I had an 80 before). I was standing for a few months before I bought it but i have done over 300 miles in it. Any ideas...?

[benjie]

First thought when I read your post is that it's the MAF - Mass Airflow Sensor. Common fault on all VAG cars. Is it particularly bad between 2k-4k rpm - i.e. most of the rev range.

[conkers]

Thanks, thats what i am beginning to think. I assume they are easy to fit...they look it....?

[benjie]

Yes, very. When you buy a new one, it comes with all the housing. You take the wiring harness off, undo the 3(I think) long screws. Then just replace. Make sure you get it in the right way round!

[conkers]

Thanks mate!

[benjie]

My pleasure!

[pauldazzle]

Just unplug the MAF & if it pulls better the MAF is faulty. If there's no difference it's not the MAF that's causing the problem. Sticking turbo vanes is another common problem, which will kill performance.

[conkers]

I have replaced the maf (it was slightly oily) and it seems a little better. I have checked the history and it appears that the cambelt might never have been done! Its on 155000 so i am doing it on monday. Perhaps the belt has stretched? will also get (any) fault codes checked....

[trioptics130]

i too noticed my car was getting very sluggish and struggling to pick up from tickover and when i cleaned the car i noticed oil around the egr valve and engine cover, a couple of hours later egr valve removed cleaned and refitted, had to use a stanley blade to clean the coke out but what a difference, like driving a new car again

[pauldazzle]

Doubt it's the belt. A lot of VAG dealers don't tick the toothed belt changed box on the service book. Unlikely to be the original belt with 155k on it.
Did you use a genuine VAG MAF? Aftermarket MAF's are notoriously bad.

[mikeybutch]

I have replaced the maf (it was slightly oily) and it seems a little better. I have checked the history and it appears that the cambelt might never have been done! Its on 155000 so i am doing it on monday. Perhaps the belt has stretched? will also get (any) fault codes checked....If thats the case its going to be worn and timing might be out.I have always wondered if there was evidence that the change interval was biased in favour of the garages getting work.It would be interesting to know if the belt does appear original and what state its in

[spartacus 68]

Timing belt and water pump are due at 60k or 4 years on 4 cylinder diesels. Knowing when it was last done would be useful. What's fuel efficiency like just now?

[conkers]

Its a bosch maf so assume its ok. The dealer history is not filled since 62000, so opuld have missed the dealer service. I agree, it might not be the original belt but I want to keep the car for time and so will change the belt. On another note where is the ERF? Any other ideas? car booked in for monday so will see...;)

[conkers]

i too noticed my car was getting very sluggish and struggling to pick up from tickover and when i cleaned the car i noticed oil around the egr valve and engine cover, a couple of hours later egr valve removed cleaned and refitted, had to use a stanley blade to clean the coke out but what a difference, like driving a new car again
where would i find the egr valve? ta

[Crasher]

Please ignore anyone who tells you to disconnect the Air Mass Meter (what people insist only calling by its Yankeeism, MAF) unless a fault code read is carried out first and after to store the fault code you log when doing this, I get fed up with traders brining me cars in with no power and open circuit AM fault codes, it just takes me an extra half an hour (£30) to be sure the AMM is faulty. testing for a faulty AMM is very easy, no codes, no power, fit a new genuine AMM. If that does not cure it, take it to a professional. Any decent garage will take off a non genuine AMM and fit a genuine one before going any further.

[conkers]

Timing belt and water pump are due at 60k or 4 years on 4 cylinder diesels. Knowing when it was last done would be useful. What's fuel efficiency like just now?
I did a run to north norfolk from peterborough and did 58mpg so ok. The audi service stamps run out at 62k and the timing belt box isnt ticked. there is little other history, although the last owner had it for 7 years but cant remember if the belt was done. Thanks

[pauldazzle]

Only trying to help the guy out. I stand by what I said. Unplugging the MAF is standard practice for diagnosing failure.

[Crasher]

It may be standard practice amongst amateurs but it simply does not work unless you can read the fault codes first and clear them after and even then, disconnecting the AMM in these circumstances may not provide the answer. In the last 20 years or so since hot wire/film AMM's came in, I have tried the practice once or twice (!) and it does not give a definitive answer as to the state of the AMM. I have tried studying the measuring blocks in VAG-COM/VCDS and using the Guided Fault Finding function in VAG's own VAS system and these methods can take a couple of man hours to come to a decision as these two hours involve two people due to the safety aspects of driving whilst using a lap top. The only fast and accurate way I have found to diagnose a faulty AMM is to fit a genuine VAG dealer supplied exchange unit and in the end this often works out less than the labour to analyse one that may end up requiring replacement anyway! Nowhere in any VAG workshop information that I have read does it suggest or recommend disconnecting the AMM as part of the diagnostic process. You may stand by what you have said listening to the poorly informed ammeters ont tinterweb but I also stand by a principle and that is to stamp out this misguided procedure so that in future, professional and experienced motor engineers do not have to start their diagnostic work by eradicating and testing their way around the amateurish work of fools who have no idea what they are doing! After all, we have to explain to the customer what we have done for their hard earned cash.

[pauldazzle]

It may be standard practice amongst amateurs but it simply does not work unless you can read the fault codes first and clear them after and even then, disconnecting the AMM in these circumstances may not provide the answer. In the last 20 years or so since hot wire/film AMM's came in, I have tried the practice once or twice (!) and it does not give a definitive answer as to the state of the AMM. I have tried studying the measuring blocks in VAG-COM/VCDS and using the Guided Fault Finding function in VAG's own VAS system and these methods can take a couple of man hours to come to a decision as these two hours involve two people due to the safety aspects of driving whilst using a lap top. The only fast and accurate way I have found to diagnose a faulty AMM is to fit a genuine VAG dealer supplied exchange unit and in the end this often works out less than the labour to analyse one that may end up requiring replacement anyway! Nowhere in any VAG workshop information that I have read does it suggest or recommend disconnecting the AMM as part of the diagnostic process. You may stand by what you have said listening to the poorly informed ammeters ont tinterweb but I also stand by a principle and that is to stamp out this misguided procedure so that in future, professional and experienced motor engineers do not have to start their diagnostic work by eradicating and testing their way around the amateurish work of fools who have no idea what they are doing! After all, we have to explain to the customer what we have done for their hard earned cash.

I respect what you are saying, but disagree with several of the points you make. I didn't say that unplugging the MAF/AMM would give a definitive answer, but if the car runs better with it unplugged there's a very high likelyhood that the sensor is faulty. As you know with the AMM/MAF unplugged the ECU reverts to default values so no danger of damage there. Sure you will be left with an intermittent or implausible signal code in VAGCOM, but that's no big deal to clear. Sticking a new VAG AMM/MAF isn't always the answer either as I've heard of many instances of & once myself had genuine VAG AMM?MAF to be faulty straight out of the box from TPS!
I have heard of many owners taking their cars to VAG main dealers with AMM/MAF & Coolant temp Sensor problems in particular that have not been diagnosed by the dealer as they don't always cause the ECU to throw a code, which has lead to the owners to much expense to get nowhere. In my experience VAG dealers aren't known for doing live logs to fault find, independent specialists are far more likely to do that. Having spent many years as a Fleet Manager I certainly don't trust main dealers when it comes to fixing things!
As for VAGCOM logging being a 2 man job I also disagree with that statement. I often do VAGCOM logs on my own with my laptop in the passenger footwell, & then examining the results off the XML spreadsheet afterwards. I would agree that VAGCOM logging is the best way to diagnose for problems, but not everyone has VAGCOM, & with dealers charging £80 for diagnostics not all owners are going to take that route, & are often going to use forums for help, which in my opinion is the main value car forums.
You have made an assumption that I'm a know nothing "amateur/fool", which is presumptuous & incorrect.
I guess we'll just have to agree to differ.

[Crasher]

There is no danger of any damage, let’s just get that clear. The code left is only a simple open circuit code that any competent mechanic can interpret that someone has disconnected the AMM but some mechanics become confused by it and I have also seen it used as a reason to fit a new AMM when one is not required such as when a relatively new genuine unit is fitted. No, fitting a new AMM is not always successful especially when they are non-genuine (many fleaBay versions are a bad joke) but I personally have only had one faulty genuine VAG AMM out of the box but I am lucky, I keep two of each of the most common AMM’s in stock so if I did suspect one, I can quickly fit another, few other people are in that fortunate position.
Yes faulty AMM’s do not always throw a code, in fact it is more usual for them not to, which is why I follow the same rule each time, “no codes, no power, new AMM”. If that does not cure it you have only spent as much as you would diagnosing it and you are then sure that the AMM is OK and you can look elsewhere.
No I do not trust main dealers either, I trust no one to always be right including myself, we are all only human after all. Main dealers may not be perfect but I know very few do it maliciously, most of their failings, as with most people, are just human error.
The point of the £80 diagnostics IS my point though. The dealer would charge at least £80 to attempt to diagnose a faulty AMM, DIY installation of a genuine unit costs little more than that and is virtually concrete proof that the AMM is not the issue.
What unplugging the AMM will also not help you with is the increasingly common problem of wiring faults to the AMM plug due to movement fatigue. All diagnostics should start with a code read, print, clear and drive then read again, anything else risks replacing parts that do not need replacing.

[pauldazzle]

There is no danger of any damage, let’s just get that clear. The code left is only a simple open circuit code that any competent mechanic can interpret that someone has disconnected the AMM but some mechanics become confused by it and I have also seen it used as a reason to fit a new AMM when one is not required such as when a relatively new genuine unit is fitted. No, fitting a new AMM is not always successful especially when they are non-genuine (many fleaBay versions are a bad joke) but I personally have only had one faulty genuine VAG AMM out of the box but I am lucky, I keep two of each of the most common AMM’s in stock so if I did suspect one, I can quickly fit another, few other people are in that fortunate position.
Yes faulty AMM’s do not always throw a code, in fact it is more usual for them not to, which is why I follow the same rule each time, “no codes, no power, new AMM”. If that does not cure it you have only spent as much as you would diagnosing it and you are then sure that the AMM is OK and you can look elsewhere.
No I do not trust main dealers either, I trust no one to always be right including myself, we are all only human after all. Main dealers may not be perfect but I know very few do it maliciously, most of their failings, as with most people, are just human error.
The point of the £80 diagnostics IS my point though. The dealer would charge at least £80 to attempt to diagnose a faulty AMM, DIY installation of a genuine unit costs little more than that and is virtually concrete proof that the AMM is not the issue.
What unplugging the AMM will also not help you with is the increasingly common problem of wiring faults to the AMM plug due to movement fatigue. All diagnostics should start with a code read, print, clear and drive then read again, anything else risks replacing parts that do not need replacing.

Points taken, & agreed.
I wouldn't advise anyone to fit an aftermarket AMM/MAF. Many years ago I made the mistake of buying one from GSF which didn't work, & had quite a fight to get my money back. It's not just fleabay parts to be cautious of. Lesson learnt.

[conkers]

OK now everyone is friends again... i have fitted a bosch maf/amm and now she flies...oh no she doesnt..yes she does. the wires seem secure...? oh and thanks to everyone!

[pauldazzle]

OK now everyone is friends again... i have fitted a bosch maf/amm and now she flies...oh no she doesnt..yes she does. the wires seem secure...? oh and thanks to everyone![/QUOTE]
:beerchug:

[Crasher]

OK now everyone is friends again...

Always were old boy, nothing wrong with a heated discussion ;)

[Mujnu]

Sorry to bring up and old thread guys but I was wondering if buying a Bosch AMM from ECP will be regarded as a genuine part? Or would you lot also advise to get it from main dealer?

Thanks.

[Crasher]

NO NO NO NO NO x10³ !

[Mujnu]

Had to whip out a calculator for that :p

Main dealer it is then. Thanks.