Trade in valuations seem like a Rip-Off to me

[BAA]

Do all main dealers only offer basic trade-in lower book price for cars being traded in against a new car ?

I am buying a new A5 Sportback with over £10K worth of options specified.
My Trade-In is a 2 year old BMW also which has over £10K worth of options, but the Audi dealer is ignoring those options and is also ignoring the fact the BMW has done less than 9000 miles so the valuation should be adjusted to reflect these facts.

Back in October when I placed the order, they offered me £16K (for a 2 year old BMW that cost more than £42K new) - today, they have offered me a reduced amount which they will hold until the March delivery date : £14,250

I know the car sales market is challenging at the moment, but I would have expected a top brand manufacturer's main dealer to want to keep their customers relatively happy and not feeling as if they were being ripped-off :(
I will still be going ahead with the purchase, irrespective of what they finally offer for the trade-in, but the next 3 years relationship between me and the Audi dealer will be seriously impacted if I continue to feel as if I have been ripped-off.

I know I could sell the BMW privately, but I am not a motor trader so do not want the hassle, and isn't the Audi dealer in business to buy and sell cars :confused: so shouldn't they have trade contacts which can offer more realistic valuations ?

I guess there is a lesson to be learnt : do not specify expensive options on a new car because you will never get that money back at trade-in. ;)

[BAA]

Attached file shows the specification of my BMW (from the original order form)


Removed due to rules apparently < removed as I cleaned the thread and your attachment was removed in error. Feel free to re-upload or drop a PM to a moderator if you have issues in future.

[Issac Hunt]

The dealer is in business to make money for themselves. Not to do you a favor or act like a charity. They want to buy your car for the cheapest price they can and sell it for as much as possible.

What's wrong with that?!

You have the option of selling privately. You aren't forced to trade it in.

[Eshrules]

oooh <claps hands> I simply adore threads like this.

Auto union won't be replying to anybody, thanks to his breaching of the rules.

BAA - have you obtained a comparitive trade in value from your local BMW dealer? Instead of hating the Audi dealership, perhaps gaining a second valuation may help to clarify just how tough the second hand market is. Repmobiles always depreciate quickly, it's the downside of spending £42k on a brand new car, you're going to get hit pretty hard.

[BAA]

The dealer is in business to make money for themselves. Not to do you a favor or act like a charity. They want to buy your car for the cheapest price they can and sell it for as much as possible.

What's wrong with that?!

You have the option of selling privately. You aren't forced to trade it in.

Thanks for your really helpful and informative post.

I already know all that, and you have not even attempted to help, so why post at all ?

I said in my original post that I know I could sell it privately, but would prefer not to.

Luckily, other members of this forum are more helpful.

[Eshrules]

Thanks for your really helpful and informative post.

I already know all that, and you have not even attempted to help, so why post at all ?

I said in my original post that I know I could sell it privately, but would prefer not to.

Lookily, other members of this forum are more helpful.

luckily*

[BAA]

oooh <claps hands> I simply adore threads like this.

Auto union won't be replying to anybody, thanks to his breaching of the rules.

BAA - have you obtained a comparitive trade in value from your local BMW dealer? Instead of hating the Audi dealership, perhaps gaining a second valuation may help to clarify just how tough the second hand market is. Repmobiles always depreciate quickly, it's the downside of spending £42k on a brand new car, you're going to get hit pretty hard.

Eshrules

As a relatively new forum member, I'm not sure which rule autounion was deemed to have broken ? But the offer to give me an idea if the valuation was realistic does not seem to be inappropriate to me.
I think banning autounion for this offer of help is unfair, is there any right of appeal ?

I have not been to my local BMW dealer for a comparative quote since I do not want to buy another BMW and hence did not want to waste their time.

[Eshrules]

Eshrules

As a relatively new forum member, I'm not sure which rule autounion was deemed to have broken ? But the offer to give me an idea if the valuation was realistic does not seem to be inappropriate to me.
I think banning autounion for this offer of help is unfair, is there any right of appeal ?

I have not been to my local BMW dealer for a comparative quote since I do not want to buy another BMW and hence did not want to waste their time.

He's been banned for reasons to which the admin team of the forum have access, I'm sure he's quite capable of contacting Stuart himself if he wishes to lodge such an appeal.

Do you not consider it a tad unfair slating an Audi dealer given you've got no comparitive valuations to use?

You could post up the full spec (model/year/mileage/service history) of your car and people would be able to comment on whether the valuation is considered a fair one or not.

[Issac Hunt]

I already know all that, and you have not even attempted to help, so why post at all ?


I'll post if I wish to. What do you want from the dealer? Full retail price as a trade in?

Cars go down in value and dealers like to make a nice profit.

What else did you expect?

[BAA]

I'll post if I wish to. - My Response : You are entitled

What do you want from the dealer? - My Answer : A fair offer

Full retail price as a trade in? - My Answer : No, an offer that reflects the specification and condition

Cars go down in value and dealers like to make a nice profit. - My Response : Okay

What else did you expect? - My Response : Not to be offered the lowest book valuation

Happy customers will most likely go back to the dealer with repeat business
Unhappy customers who feel like they have been ripped-off will not go back to that dealer again.

[Sam]

No more sniping comments from anyone, please.

BAA are you restricted in your choice of dealerships?

Can you find the car you want elsewhere? A broker, a dealership of another marque, etc.

A site like Parkers (http://www.parkers.co.uk/) will give you a rough idea of the price of your current car (you'll need to pay to add things like extras) and you may find you'll get more for your money by using either a car supermarket <cringe> or one of the many 'We Buy....' places that are springing up all over the place at the moment.

If they offer you more than the one Audi dealership you've already tried, but less than the figure you've got in your head then you know you can get more.

What is it you are trying to sell and what is it you are trying to purchase?

[BAA]

Do you not consider it a tad unfair slating an Audi dealer given you've got no comparitive valuations to use?

You could post up the full spec (model/year/mileage/service history) of your car and people would be able to comment on whether the valuation is considered a fair one or not.
I have not slated the dealer, just said what has happened - the truth. I do have comparative valuations from searching for similar cars for sale from BMW main dealers where one example which has more than 20K miles on the clock is advertised for sale at £18,999.

The spec of my BMW is as follows :
Valuation is for March 2012
Estimated mileage at March 2012 = 9000 miles
Service history is up to date according to variable service schedule - from on board computer.




Vehicle : E90 330i SE N53 3.0 Colour : Tasman Reg. No :
Chassis No : Trim : Oyster Dakota leather
Reg. Date : 29/10/2009

Description Value VAT Total
Vehicle price 25595.65 3839.36 29435.01
Delivery 591.30 88.70 680.00
Tasman F.O.C.
0yster / B1ack Dakota Leather 1056.52 158.48 1215.00
Media Package - BMW Professional 1647.83 247.17 1895.00
Navigation system Professional F.O.C.
BMW ConnectedDrive Assist F.O.C.
BMW ConnectedDrive Online F.O.C.
Voice Control F.O.C.
Bluetooth phone prep + telematics F.O.C.
Visibility Package 569.57 85.44 655.01
Xenon Headlights F.O.C.
Adaptive Headlights F.O.C.
High-beam Assistant F.O.C.
Automatic Gearbox 1391.30 208.70 1600.00
Active Steering 826.09 123.91 950.00
Sport leather steering wheel with paddle controls F.O.C.
Comfort Access 443.48 66.52 510.00
Chromeline exterior trim F.O.C.
Towbar fully electric 530.43 79.56 609.99
Windscreen with grey shade band 56.52 8.48 65.00
Ext. mirrors – folding auto dimming 217.39 32.61 250.00
Elec Fr Seats + Driver Memory 756.52 113.48 870.00
Split-folding rear seats 221.74 33.26 255.00
Sport seats front 365.22 54.78 420.00
Lumbar support driver and front passenger 195.65 29.35 225.00
Extended storage 78.26 11.74 90.00
Burr Walnut Wood Trim 256.52 38.48 295.00
Armrest front with sliding adjust 95.65 14.35 110.00
Active Cruise Control 956.52 143.48 1100.00
Head restraints rear and folding 30.43 4.56 34.99
CD Changer 252.17 37.83 290.00
Loudspeaker System – Logic 7 Pro 700.00 105.00 805.00
Special Allowance -152.17 -22.83 -175.00
Paint Protection System 256.52 38.48 295.00
First Registration Fee 55.00 0.00 55.00
RFL 12 months 175.00 0.00 175.00
Fuel 30.43 4.56 34.99
Mud Flaps Front / Rear F.O.C.
Snap In Phone adaptor / Charger F.O.C.

Totals 37199.54 5545.45 42744.99

INVOICE TOTAL Inc. VAT £42,744.99


That is probably more info than needed but if anyone thinks an offer of £14,250 is fair then ???

[BAA]

No more sniping comments from anyone, please.

BAA are you restricted in your choice of dealerships?

Can you find the car you want elsewhere? A broker, a dealership of another marque, etc.

A site like Parkers (http://www.parkers.co.uk/) will give you a rough idea of the price of your current car (you'll need to pay to add things like extras) and you may find you'll get more for your money by using either a car supermarket <cringe> or one of the many 'We Buy....' places that are springing up all over the place at the moment.

If they offer you more than the one Audi dealership you've already tried, but less than the figure you've got in your head then you know you can get more.

What is it you are trying to sell and what is it you are trying to purchase?

Thanks for your reply...

I've got valuations from Vauxhall - CAP site, Glasses online site and Parkers - all show the Audi dealer has offered approx the lowest trade-in value without options and with average 20K miles. (i.e. little effort expended by the dealership to get a better valuation)

See above post for spec of BMW I am trying to sell

I have already ordered an A5 Sportback with many options bringing the total cost of this new car to £42,625 - build scheduled for w/c 16/1/2012
The order was based on an original trade-in offer of £16K for the BMW

[Sam]

There's an 11 plate M Sport saloon which appears to have a similar spec to yours for 'only' £29k on Autotrader.

BMW Approved Used have an 09 plate M Sport Coupé for just over £21k or an M Sport saloon for £23k

I'm not up to speed on BMW spec/models but if the Audi dealership wanted to sell your BMW and make a profit (which they do, as Mr Hunt pointed out above) and all they could hope to list it for was, say, £18,999 (using the price in your previous post as an example) then offering you £16k seems fair to me. Granted it barely covers the cost of all the options, but as with modifications you very rarely get back what you paid out.

I'd echo the comments above though, you'll get more if you sell it privately, even more still if you sell it on an owner's forum because they'll appreciate the extras.

[BAA]

I agree £16K is fair and that is why I placed the order for the Audi in October 2011. But now, in January 2012, the dealer has reduced his offer to £14,250 which he said they will hold until delivery of the A5 in March 2012

It's this reduction of nearly £2K which hurts after I placed the order and the dealer has my deposit.

[MFGF]

Just to reiterate one of Sam's points, it wouldn't cost you anything to try one of the "We buy..." merchants - I think you can plug in the details of your car online and get an initial price they would be willing to offer. If they offer more than the Audi dealership, you could get them to take the car off your hands with no hassle and see if you can negotiate any further discount from the dealer as you would then be a cash buyer.

Just a thought :)

MF.

[BAA]

Just tried that too, WBAC.com offer less than bottom book price.

The A5 has already been discounted, so no more would be available for a cash deal.

I may have to decide to keep the BMW and sell it myself, at least the motor trade would not be able to make a profit on it at my expense.

[JON76]

Interesting thread - but I can't see anywhere anything about the condition of the BMW - what condition is it in as this could affect the 'fair' value of the car?

I've part exchanged 3 times with dealers - each time the car I was trading in was totally unmarked and what I'd consider to be pristine condition and I got the mid value as specified by Glass's. If your car has any marks whatsoever on the bodywork or wheels, any interior damage, well worn tyres etc. it's probably not going to achieve above the lowest Glass's valuation.

[nealeb]

It's a difficult one as "ripped off" sometimes means that someone is really take the <removed>, and sometimes that they aren't offering what the seller is misled into thinking it's worth.

I've just been through the same exercise. My 56-plate 3.0TDI A6 Avant, according to the prices I see on the web, is "worth" around £14-15K. The dealer offered £9300, but was happy to keep that offer open up to the day of delivery of the new car and if I wanted to sell privately, that would be fine. So I paid for some tidying of a couple of odd scratches and so on, and advertised it on Ebay Classified, Autotrader, and on this forum. I had a total of two online offers with silly money (presumably dealers trying for a good deal - and I can't blame them for that), a couple of email enquiries about the spec and I never heard back from them; after a total of about a month and reducing from the initial price of 13950 I eventually accepted an offer of £10K. The difference over the dealer offer was about the minimum I would have accepted to allow for the hassle of a private sale compared to a simple trade-in.

Now, I could have said that the dealer offer was a rip-off as it was quite clear that the going price was around 50% above what I was offered. But, as ever, the value of anything you're selling is precisely what you can actually get for it, no more and no less. In retrospect, I don't believe that the dealer offer was out of line, and I was just glad that I managed to do a little bit better. But to do that meant a lot of fiddling about, photographing and putting the advert together, responding to calls and emails, and so on. As well as the cost of the adverts and the tidying work. If it had been a trade-in, I wouldn't even have washed it first:)

I thought that it was a pretty well-established fact that options don't significantly increase the value of a car, although it might make it stand out a bit from more basic models at a similar price. And if you don't want the effort of selling privately, it seems a bit unfair to criticise someone wanting to make a profit out of doing that work, in effect, on your behalf. It does seem a bit underhand to drop the quote after the new car is ordered, but I have to say that the original verbal offer I had for mine dropped after the dealer saw the car and pointed out to me that I had got the mileage wrong. My error, although a genuine one, and I can't blame the dealer for dropping the price when they checked.

None of which helps someone who feels hard done by. I can only say that with the benefit of this recent experience, there are a lot of optimists out there with inflated ideas of the value of the cars they are selling on Ebay, Autotrader, etc, and valuing your car by comparison with their asking price, as opposed to what they might actually accept in the end, is likely to end in disappointment. If it's a dealer selling (and a lot of them are trade) then you know that their asking price is a bit more than they paid as a trade-in or, more likely, through the trade from a main dealer's trade-in.

[BAA]

Interesting thread - but I can't see anywhere anything about the condition of the BMW - what condition is it in as this could affect the 'fair' value of the car?

I've part exchanged 3 times with dealers - each time the car I was trading in was totally unmarked and what I'd consider to be pristine condition and I got the mid value as specified by Glass's. If your car has any marks whatsoever on the bodywork or wheels, any interior damage, well worn tyres etc. it's probably not going to achieve above the lowest Glass's valuation.

Sorry, I missed including the condition of the BMW... It is in showroom condition, no paintwork marks at all, no marks or wear to the interior and since it has done less than 9000 miles at the moment the tyres still have at least another 5000 miles of life in them, it is taxed until end of April 2012 (I got 6 months tax at last renewal since that lines up with the purchase of the new A5)
I have traded-in more than 25 cars in my driving lifetime so I understand what can normally be achieved, but this latest experience has never happened to me before... i.e. the dealer reducing their offer after the order was placed and the deposit paid.


It's a difficult one as "ripped off" sometimes means that someone is really take the <removed>, and sometimes that they aren't offering what the seller is misled into thinking it's worth.

I've just been through the same exercise. My 56-plate 3.0TDI A6 Avant, according to the prices I see on the web, is "worth" around £14-15K. The dealer offered £9300, but was happy to keep that offer open up to the day of delivery of the new car and if I wanted to sell privately, that would be fine. So I paid for some tidying of a couple of odd scratches and so on, and advertised it on Ebay Classified, Autotrader, and on this forum. I had a total of two online offers with silly money (presumably dealers trying for a good deal - and I can't blame them for that), a couple of email enquiries about the spec and I never heard back from them; after a total of about a month and reducing from the initial price of 13950 I eventually accepted an offer of £10K. The difference over the dealer offer was about the minimum I would have accepted to allow for the hassle of a private sale compared to a simple trade-in.

Now, I could have said that the dealer offer was a rip-off as it was quite clear that the going price was around 50% above what I was offered. But, as ever, the value of anything you're selling is precisely what you can actually get for it, no more and no less. In retrospect, I don't believe that the dealer offer was out of line, and I was just glad that I managed to do a little bit better. But to do that meant a lot of fiddling about, photographing and putting the advert together, responding to calls and emails, and so on. As well as the cost of the adverts and the tidying work. If it had been a trade-in, I wouldn't even have washed it first:)

I thought that it was a pretty well-established fact that options don't significantly increase the value of a car, although it might make it stand out a bit from more basic models at a similar price. And if you don't want the effort of selling privately, it seems a bit unfair to criticise someone wanting to make a profit out of doing that work, in effect, on your behalf. It does seem a bit underhand to drop the quote after the new car is ordered, but I have to say that the original verbal offer I had for mine dropped after the dealer saw the car and pointed out to me that I had got the mileage wrong. My error, although a genuine one, and I can't blame the dealer for dropping the price when they checked.

None of which helps someone who feels hard done by. I can only say that with the benefit of this recent experience, there are a lot of optimists out there with inflated ideas of the value of the cars they are selling on Ebay, Autotrader, etc, and valuing your car by comparison with their asking price, as opposed to what they might actually accept in the end, is likely to end in disappointment. If it's a dealer selling (and a lot of them are trade) then you know that their asking price is a bit more than they paid as a trade-in or, more likely, through the trade from a main dealer's trade-in.
I agree that some adverts are overly optimistic, but the comparisons I have been able to do seem to show that the Audi dealer offer is the lowest possible.
There are very few BMWs around with the specification / options I have and even fewer with less than 9K miles at 2 years old, so I would expect it to be more attractive than a standard factory spec'ed car, but I appreciate I would never get back anything like the cost of all these options, I specify the options so that I get the benefit of their use.

With the benefit of hindsight I should never have purchased the BMW since I now know that I prefer the Audi range.
I've had four previous Audis, 2 of which were purchased from this same Audi dealer so I may have been expecting a little better offer from them since I have given them some good business in the past.
This is another good lesson for me, and this is the last car I will be buying from this particular dealer. In future I will not be willing to pay such a large deposit, so that if a dealer reduces their trade-in offer after the order, then I would be able to pull out of the deal.
Having said that, if the car market remains this challenging, I may be keeping the A5 for some time (10+ years)

[portovechios]

Pff ! Why on earth would you spend 42k on a car and change after 2 years?

Sell for 15k

9000 miles

That's £3k lost every 1000 miles , not including running costs

£3 a mile depreciation...... Wow

Of course it's your money to do what you want with but I think The Audi crew have a living to make and these are tough times, if you wanna PX then you take it with a smile because you have choices.

No rant just my feelings

[Issac Hunt]

But, as ever, the value of anything you're selling is precisely what you can actually get for it, no more and no less.

Exactly. Something is worth only as much someone is willing to pay for it.

I appreciate the OP is upset the the car has devalued further since the deal was done, however the trade in is now older and had less warranty left etc so it's worth less money. If you wanted a fixed trade in price then that should have been agreed in writing as part of the deal at the time the car was ordered.

Don't get hung on prices of options though, they add very little (if anything) value on the used market.

[SINGHY]

Audi dealers do have a tendency to take the **** when it comes to part ex prices, you should look on Auto trader to see what price similar vehicles are up for and use that as a yardstick, I did this when I bought my current car and traded in the wife's mini, within a matter of hours I got the dealer to offer me an extra £1500. I recently thought about buynig an A5 and in the end decided against it beccause the dealer offered me £4k less for my car than an identical car they were selling on their forecourt, I thought that was just staggering, in fact the Salesman seemed quite embarrassed when I pointed it out, whilst I didn't expect them to offer me the same in swap I didn't think a £4k difference was on. Interestingly the Audi dealers have been ringing me regulalrly to lure me in to a deal, I've ordered a RR Evoque in stead, fancy a change. Oh and I did say to the Audi dealer that if he could get me an identical car to mine for the price they were offering me then I would do the deal, I think they realised then that I wasn't one of the mugs who's easily flattered by their offers of fresh coffee and croissants.

[Eshrules]

Audi dealers do have a tendency to take the **** when it comes to part ex prices, you should look on Auto trader to see what price similar vehicles are up for and use that as a yardstick, I did this when I bought my current car and traded in the wife's mini, within a matter of hours I got the dealer to offer me an extra £1500. I recently thought about buynig an A5 and in the end decided against it beccause the dealer offered me £4k less for my car than an identical car they were selling on their forecourt, I thought that was just staggering, in fact the Salesman seemed quite embarrassed when I pointed it out, whilst I didn't expect them to offer me the same in swap I didn't think a £4k difference was on. Interestingly the Audi dealers have been ringing me regulalrly to lure me in to a deal, I've ordered a RR Evoque in stead, fancy a change. Oh and I did say to the Audi dealer that if he could get me an identical car to mine for the price they were offering me then I would do the deal, I think they realised then that I wasn't one of the mugs who's easily flattered by their offers of fresh coffee and croissants.

Mug enough to buy the toy RR though ;) Be interesting to see how the residuals of these things last.

[SINGHY]

Listen I've had audi cars for almost 30 years they no longer have a monopoly on strong residuals anymore Don't really care too much about the residuals on the Evoque I know it will out do the Q3 so sorry MR Moderator that I'm not buying another Audi but please don't be too unkind to me as my wife will be hanging on to her A3! You're not paid by Audi are you to censor any customer criticism.

[paul1964]

Been a bit thick which model BMW is it ? and have you tried we buy any car .com they are web based and usually quote online no hassle i have used them to value most of our vehicles.

[vince70]

I wouldn't go to we buy any car.
I was offered £100 for my Ex condition 1.6 Audi A4 which had 50,000 on the clock and a brand new Mot and four new tyres, once you take out the admin charge and the next day money charge it worked out I was going to get about £25 for my car, needless to say I didnt take it, I think they also wanted me to throw in a full tank of petrol lol

[JimC64]

My take......

You're always gonna lose money on part exchanges and more often than not be offered the lowest book price or thereabouts.......selling privately is the way to go if you have the time.....a little hassle but more dosh at the end up usually.

You'll never get back anything you've put into the car by way of add ons / extras, they just make it more saleable.

Sounds like the dealer has been naughty though changing the goalposts haflway through a deal by the sounds of it??
If it were me I'd be taking that up with the dealer principle!

As for we buy any car......who actually sells their car ( sorry - gives their car away to these guys?? )

[Eshrules]

Listen I've had audi cars for almost 30 years they no longer have a monopoly on strong residuals anymore Don't really care too much about the residuals on the Evoque I know it will out do the Q3 so sorry MR Moderator that I'm not buying another Audi but please don't be too unkind to me as my wife will be hanging on to her A3! You're not paid by Audi are you to censor any customer criticism.

Sorry, did I censor something? <checks> nope, I didn't.

I expressed an opinion, something we're all entitled to do on here - my apologies if that offends you.

[Gomjaba]

Old thread, but I just traded in and had a chat with a friend who is working for Audi himself. Bottom line is, Audi won't sell your car themselves but they are working together with another used car dealer. Audi won't sell other makes so they will make sure your BMW goes somewhere else and as soon as a middleman is involved - in your case the Audi dealer - prices go down as everyone wants a piece of the pie. And he also said to me that they hardly look at extras due to the 'demand'. Some are very precise in what extras they want the used car to have. But most only have a price / budget in mind. When I bought a used car I always went for the best I can get for £X - personally I didn't even care about the extras and I am sure the majority of used car buyer don't, unless you are buying from an official dealer who can then hunt for the spec nationwide for you ... But no one would go to an Audi dealer to ask for a BMW with a specific spec.

Hope that makes sense.