LED headlights

[nealeb]

I'm thinking of upgrading my A6 (C6) to the new model so I've been thumbing through the list of extras to see what tempts me. My local dealer doesn't seem to have a demonstrator with many of the toys (which surprises me), and anyway getting a demo drive at night is a bit more difficult:)

So I'm looking for any comments from anyone who might have the LED headlights and has had a chance to really try them out. I have an A7-owning colleague with these fitted but I would appreciate feedback from a wider audience! Or I'm going to have to wait for the darker evenings and bum a test ride from my colleague...

[aurora7]

Hi - I have the A7 with LED headlights and it is probably near if not at the top of my options list (hard choice since I love lots of my options). My previous car had bi-xenons which were great, but LED with adaptive lighting takes things to a completely new level. I have always had trouble driving at night and the LED lights have changed the game completely. I am actually enjoying every night time journey since the quality of light and visibility is just fantastic.

I think you should definitely bum a test ride from someone, and with the nights drawing in it doesn't even have to be at too unsociable an hour!!

[robbyg]

For anyone who has the LED headlights, can you confirm if they do this? Looks truly excellent!

http://www.audi.de/de/brand/de/neuwagen/effizienz/effizienztechnologien/assistenzsysteme/lichtsysteme/gleitende_leuchtweite.html

Also, what happens if you drive to france etc, can you re profile them via the mmi?

Cheers

[Timothy Nathan]

I have Xenons, but I can tell you that there is an option in the car section of the MMI to change between LHD and RHD.

[BigAid]

I believe if you've got mmi touch with the hdd it should change automatically

Either way it has an mmi option

Will let you know in July :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gbjk]

I hadn't seen that video from audi. I knew they did something like that, but hadn't seen it visualised.

*So* glad I put them on the options list.

4 weeks until new A6 arrives!

G

[nealeb]

For anyone who has the LED headlights, can you confirm if they do this? Looks truly excellent!

http://www.audi.de/de/brand/de/neuwagen/effizienz/effizienztechnologien/assistenzsysteme/lichtsysteme/gleitende_leuchtweite.html

Also, what happens if you drive to france etc, can you re profile them via the mmi?

Cheers
The manual suggests that with the right level of nav system it knows which country you are in and dips accordingly, although mine (with LED) has the L/R dip option in the MMI anyway.

That video is good, but I'm not absolutely sure that this is how it works with LED headlights. It might only apply to xenon with adaptive/high beam assist/range assist (or some such - the manual and brochure are not really clear). My experience of xenon+adaptive is that the beam really does go up and down like that although I didn't see the half-main/half-dip effect. Steering lights round bends is also effective. Haven't really given my LED lights a good tryout in different conditions yet but a quick test last night suggested less variation, and the brochure if you read it carefully does seem to suggest that "range assist" doesn't happen with LED.

[nealeb]

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In order, these are an unilluminated headlight, DRLs (engine running but note that these are a little dimmer if you switch on sidelights), dip (there seems to be a total of 9 light sources in an L-shape) and then main beam - adds another three very bright sources along the top.

It's very difficult to get a picture with similar brightness sources showing as you tend to be in or out of the beam of some but never all of them. Might be an interesting exercise one day to work out just where they all point... And then there seems to be a small diffuser/lens thing under the centre of the headlight assembly which might be the turning/corner light.

And no, I couldn't think of a way to get the adaptive bit to operate while the car was sitting on my drive in daylight!

[BigAid]

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In order, these are an unilluminated headlight, DRLs (engine running but note that these are a little dimmer if you switch on sidelights), dip (there seems to be a total of 9 light sources in a horizontal band plus 4 in an L-shape at the outside) and then main beam - adds another three very bright sources along the top.

It's very difficult to get a picture with similar brightness sources showing as you tend to be in or out of the beam of some but never all of them. Might be an interesting exercise one day to work out just where they all point... And then there seems to be a small diffuser/lens thing under the centre of the headlight assembly which might be the turning/corner light.

And no, I couldn't think of a way to get the adaptive bit to operate while the car was sitting on my drive in daylight!

Small light underneath is the equivalent of the Fog lights - re-named All weather lights.........also comes on for turning corners.


From an American site

The LED headlights of the A6 feature LEDs for lighting functions. Each headlamp has a total of 57 LEDs together with accompanying heat sinks. A fan integrated into the headlight prevents the electronic components from overheating.

Reflectors or projection modules are used, depending on the lighting function. Thick-walled optics are employed for the DRLs, parking lights, and turn signals to achieve a homogenous appearance for these lighting functions.

High Beam
Horizontal ones - Low Beam symmetrical
Vertical ones - Low beam asymmetrical


Parking light - LEDs (white, dimmed)
Daytime running light (DRL) - strip of 24 LEDs (white)
Turn signal - 2x2 LEDs
Low beam headlight - 14 LEDs (5x2 chip and 4 single LEDs) - the first 4 units horizontal from the grille are 1x2 units then the rest - 2 horizontal and 3 vertical are 1x1 units
High beam headlight - 12 LEDs (3x4 chip, in addition to low beams)
Cornering light (static) - 4 LEDs (1x4 chip, in addition to low beams)
Coming home / leaving home - 14 LEDs (5x2 chip and 4 single LEDs)
Side marker light - 3 LEDs (white with yellow reflector)

[nealeb]

That's an awful lot of LEDs!

In my picture of the dip beam lights, one of them appears to be much dimmer than the rest. I assumed that was because I was off the beam axis but I wonder if it is to do with the overall beam shaping? Maybe that's one of the "country" lights and not "town" lights!

[nealeb]

Right, then, guys. After conversations with both Audi Customer Services and my local Audi dealer, both of whom tried very hard to be helpful but failed (mainly because neither of these worthy organisations have actually had any real hands-on experience of LED headlights), I thought that it was time for a bit of science. So, as founder and sole member of the Sad Old Audi-Owning Geek Club (South Hampshire branch), I set up a controlled experiment this evening, once it was dark enough to see beam patterns on the road. I asked my wife (who wishes me to point out that this was really pretty wonderful and understanding of her) to take her A3 around a local circuit of unlighted country roads, all pretty straight although with some up-and-down sections while I followed.

I was looking to understand three features of the headlights. These were "adaptive lights" and "high-beam assist" (also called main beam assist in some places) which are specifically mentioned in the brochure, and "range assist" which is only mentioned in the driver's manual. Here is what I found, and what I believe each of these terms actually means in practice. Assume for all this that the light switch is set to "Auto", both automatic light settings in the MMI are set to "On", and the dip switch has been pushed away from you once and the auto lights symbol is showing up in the DIS.

First of all, high-beam assist. This is the easiest one to see. On a dark road with no-one else around, no street lights, etc, main beam is on - and it is very, very, bright. Lots of light everywhere. As soon as another car comes into sight, whether someone you are following or an oncoming car, the car switches to dip. It's like turning off the sun. Very sharp cutoff to the top of the dip beam, and complete darkness beyond. So, no dazzle for other road users. Once the other vehicle is out of sight, back comes main beam. You also see this when following a car on an up-and-down road as the car in front disappears and reappears. The system works very well, but the contrast between main on and off is a bit off-putting at first - "Where's the world in front gone?"

Then comes the more subtle effect of range assist (I'll get back to the adaptive lights in a moment). If you are following another car, you will be on dip, as above. So I set myself a reasonable distance from the car in front and noted that the top of dip beam was somewhere between number plate and bumper (the beam cutoff is really that sharp). As I closed the gap or dropped back, the top of dip beam stayed just about between number plate and bumper. In other words, the dip beam rose and fell to compensate for distance, and my wife's comment afterwards was that at no time was she dazzled by my bright lights behind, however close I came. The system got a little confused going over the summit of some of the hilly bits because it couldn't react fast enough, but even then it didn't seem to give the car in front a particular problem. As soon as it saw an oncoming car, as far as I could tell it dipped as far as it could. The adaptive bit might have kicked in as well (see below) but given that the bit of the beam that would have dipped most was by then illuminated by the other car's dip beam, it was difficult to tell. One reason why I had found it difficult to see the range assist working previously is that it pretty much only works when following another car. Oncoming cars trip high-beam assist which is almost literally a lot more bang-bang in operation.

Then we come to the adaptive lights. The previous two features are pretty much the same for the "adaptive bi-xenon" and LED headlights except that the xenons vary continuously between main and dip so the on/off main beam effect is not quite so severe. Adaptive lights differ between the two. Adaptive xenons include the range assist feature (as for the LED) but they also swivel with the steering and possibly based on input from the nav system so that they "look round corners". Works quite well, too (I've test driven a car with them), but this is not needed for LED lights which put out lots of light, everywhere. Did I mention how bright the LEDs are? Anyone who thinks that LEDs are restricted to indicator lights on electronic equipment really should see these. In addition, the xenon lights go up and down together as a pair, as far as I could tell, and apart from the "range change" the beam shape stays constant. What I found difficult to see although the Audi advertising and other literature claims happens is that the two LED headlights can adjust independently so that one can dip to avoid dazzling while the other stays up, for example. Audi also claim that the beam shape can vary according to whether you are in town, country, motorway or whatever. I think that I saw some changes in the shape of the beam on the road but to be honest it's difficult to tell in practice on real roads - too many other complicating factors. The other difference between adaptive xenon and LED is that the swivelling "looks round the corner" feature is replaced by a further LED set which illuminate when you turn the wheel significantly and shine on to the apex of the junction. How much you have to turn the wheel, and what range of speeds allow this to happen, I don't know but again, it just gives a bit more light where it might be needed.

So, any conclusions? Yes. LED headlights are very bright, and there are some clever features in there that try to give you as much light as possible without dazzling anyone. For the most part they succeed very well, and where they don't, you can always override them with the dip switch anyway. They can get confused with narrow roads and high hedges (I think that there is too much reflected light and the LEDs won't switch to main beam), when on main beam they can panic at the sight of a particularly bright reflective roadsign and dip, and the contrast between main on and off is quite marked - more so even than with xenon which themselves are quite bright on main beam. Also, the xenons vary continuously between main and dip where the LED main beam actually turns off, so there is a sudden change of light and only the dip beam has range-assist.

Would I go for LED again? Based on experience to date, yes, probably, but my couple of hours with an adaptive bi-xenon setup says that that is actually very good as well - main beam is not quite as bright but still very effective and much better than halogen, and the variation from main to full dip and back is continuous across the range where the LEDs have a discontinuity when main turns off. In terms of sheer light output, the LEDs win for night driving. If budget is a bit limited, go for adaptive bi-xenon and spend the money on other goodies (toys?).

One man's opinion - your mileage and eyesight may vary:)

[BigAid]

Thanks for a very comprehensive review nealeb :)


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[robbyg]

excellent science nealeb. I still dont know which to go for though. LED lights look cool, so i will probably go that way....

[nealeb]

LED lights look cool

After posting a few pictures, you may note that I have said nothing about cosmetic qualities! That's a personal opinion and not one that affects my own choice. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and nowt to do with science...

In any case, the only reason that LED lights are cool is because of their fans:)

[Timothy Nathan]

Nealeb,

Where do pedestrians and cyclists fit into the scheme of things?

[nealeb]

Nealeb,

Where do pedestrians and cyclists fit into the scheme of things?

Do you mean what are my personal opinions of them, whether they should carry xenon or LED lights themselves, or are they detected by the adaptive light control subsystem? The last one is easiest to answer so I'll have a go at that one! Easy to answer because I don't know. In the same way that I don't think that motorcycles are reliably detected by ACC, I think that these other road users are below any reasonable detection threshold. And I didn't encounter any on my voyage of exploration the other night! I suspect that a really bright reflective jacket might trigger the auto-dip (main beam assist) function but given its sensitivity to road signs, not until it's too late. Don't know about an oncoming bicycle "headlight", even the brighter LED ones. Are you worried about following a cyclist and dazzling him with main beam or a too-high dip? Probably not as they don't have mirrors, in general, and may even be able to make use of your lights in that situation.

If there is anyone out there who would like to make a kamikaze run at the front of my car one dark night, on foot or on bike, to measure minimum detection range, I'm sure that we could set something up:)

[Timothy Nathan]

OK, maybe I wasn't specific enough. Any decent road user will dip for oncoming pedestrians and cyclists.

My worry is that Adaptive users will get out of that habit because they are so used to it all being done for them.

[nealeb]

Can't disagree with that, but to a certain extent the same is true of most of the driver aids that we see being fitted these days. ACC, anyone? I switch between the automatic A6 and manual A3 and Focus. Usually, I remember whether or not I'm in a car with a clutch or not...

Philosophical point - is it better to rely on other drivers knowing how and when to dip, or to give them something that gets it right nearly all the time? Given that the average driver doesn't even seem to know where the dip switch is and never, ever, uses main beam.

Further discussion point - also given that the average car user probably relies more on what the dealer tells them when they pick it up than on reading, understanding and using the driver's manual, how many drivers of a car with the complexity of the current A6 actually know what half the buttons and knobs do, let alone how to use them? Contributors to this forum excluded, naturally, as you have at least demonstrated some level of ability to handle modern IT systems!

[robbyg]

I am just wondering, i believe the individually moving up and down to shape the dipped (adaptive light) beam function is disabled for america (read off another forum). perhaps some VAGCOM tweaking can re-instate it here in the uk? I cant believe audi have designed multiple LED systems, it must be 1 system with several software variants?

[nealeb]

Robbyg - I'm not saying that the lights do not move separately, just that it's difficult to see if they do! In fact, with a bit more experience, I'm starting to think that I do see different beam patterns from time to time but I haven't been able to correlate with what in the environment might have triggered the change. Yes, I would be pretty certain that all the mechanics exist in all variants and it's only software that changes. That seems like the obvious way to do it, barring the addition of an odd cable perhaps. You need the motors for self-levelling and so on whatever else you do in the software, for example.

As for American headlights - haven't they just moved out of the "candles only" era and into the "you're allowed a torch bulb as long as it's not too bright" 21st century? I haven't been to the US for a few years now but I was always appalled at the poor headlights on US cars, and even more that this state of affairs apparently existed because of tight controls on what was allowed, even to defining the "standard" light unit at one time (the US official candle?).

[robbyg]

i suppose when the limit is only 55mph, candles are probably adequate as long as there is a little shield to stop the wind blowing them out.....

[robbyg]

Nealeb
Are you noticing any more of the subtleties of the system a week later? I have ordered the LED lights but its not too late to cancel at present. Have they grown on you?

[nealeb]

To be honest, I haven't driven the car very much recently, and hardly at all at night. I mainly work from home, and when I do commute it's normally by motorbike. The A6 is a very comfortable car in which to sit in a traffic queue, but it doesn't get past lines of stationary cars like the bike:)

I'm happy with the LEDs, but I'm really not sure that I would not have been almost as happy with the adaptive bi-xenon. I can't spend your money for you but before you really have to commit, I would strongly recommend trying the adaptive xenon and see if you like them. If you do, go for them and I don't think that you would be disappointed. The LEDs might be a bit better - principally in main beam light output and coverage - but you wouldn't be missing much. And the xenon "continuous variation from main to dip" is arguably better than the LED "switch from main to extended dip, then continuous variation to fully dipped" mode of operation.

Having experienced them, I feel somewhat that people might choose LED in the same way as 19" wheels - there's a theoretical advantage in terms of functionality but mainly it's about cosmetics...

[BigAid]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d4b7802e-0a94-9aae.jpg

Photos below at night

Full beam headlights
Normal headlights

Then
Normal headlight
Normal headlight + turning sidelight

Agree with nealeb - it's quite a sharp adjustment from huge amounts of light on full beam to normal beam...

I've not tried the xenons so can't compare.

Aid

[KAM]

My vehicle has the bi-xenon lamps and I've never had the opportunity to try the LEDs.
I'm not at all disappointed, but it may be a case of "what you never had, you never miss".

I find the dipped position incredibly precise with a very sharp cut off. I think this is a good thing to minimise light scatter towards oncoming traffic and the range is certainly adequate for the conditions when I think dipped should be used.
When switching to full-beam there is, as a result, a strong impression of a change of height of the beam top as well as the distance. I've especially noticed this when driving among trees.

OK, I've just re-read that and maybe 'among' was the wrong preposition to use. I didn't actually mean I've taken My Precious out on an off-road forest ramble. I did mean, of course, on a road, 'between' trees, on either side of the road. Clear?

[nealeb]

Do you have the "adaptive" option with your xenons? My experience is that that is a good way to avoid the daylight-to-darkness effect when you go highbeam to lowbeam, or at least when you let the car do it for you.

What a wonderfully erudite collection of people contribute to this forum. First time I have come across the use of the word "preposition" in any motoring-related forum!

[Timothy Nathan]

As in "I preposition my car to burn 'em at the lights...." ?

[nealeb]

Exactly, Timothy - couldn't put it better myself.

(wanders off, shaking head sadly...)

[KAM]

@Timothy
Ha-ha - excellent :):):)
So you're the one always on the cyclists green bit of tarmac at the front ?

[gbjk]

Okay, so I've now got my A6 with LEDs.

They look fantastic.
The light they produce is very clear white.

However: They are *not* as bright or as far spread as the xenons on my lexus GS on full beam, which would make everything around us completely daylight. They have quite a tight forward facing lighting pattern.

The auto-dipping mechanism works well.

I saw no sights of adaptive distance on the LEDs driving last night It really seems to be just on or off.

[nealeb]

I saw no sights of adaptive distance on the LEDs driving last night It really seems to be just on or off.

I wasn't sure how or even whether this worked on mine. The problem is that the auto-dip is over a fairly small range compared with the big difference between main and dip. However, I did a test under controlled conditions and I could see the dip range vary as I moved closer or further from the car in front (driven by my wife with a request not to panic whatever I did behind!). It is a bit subtle, though, and it shows up a lot more on the adaptive xenon lights.

Haven't really seen the "motorway" main beam change either, but that's only supposed to work at 65MPH+ or so, and I haven't found an empty motorway yet where I can do that speed without something else around that forces headlights to dip.

[robbyg]

nealeb
6 weeks on, how are you getting on with the lights? Have you experienced the motorway light? Can you adjust much in the mmi re led settings?
Mine turns up in a few weeks i think.

[nealeb]

nealeb
6 weeks on, how are you getting on with the lights? Have you experienced the motorway light? Can you adjust much in the mmi re led settings?
Mine turns up in a few weeks i think.

Well-timed question. I have recently retired and moved house, so driving patterns are now very different. However, last night I drove home from Hampshire to Devon with fair bit of night driving on fast A roads and Devon lanes, and exercised the LEDs a bit more than I had done previously.

Didn't see much evidence of subtle beam-shaping to suit other traffic, but I suspect that that will always be difficult to see as, by definition, there are other people's lights around as well!

Adaptive dip seems to work fine, and apart from brief instants (typical humps and hollows in the road) the top of dip beam didn't appear to be high enough at any point to trouble the driver in front, and the dip range did seem to vary according to conditions. As I have said before, though, because the LEDs have a separate main and dip LED set you do not get quite the same range variation as you do with adaptive xenons.

Auto main/dip switching was good, with one exception that I shall mention in a moment. I never needed to override the car's choice when an oncoming car forced the lights to dip - reaction to oncoming lights was good and I doubt that, overall, I would have done much better manually and especially as I had been driving for about 6-7 hours by then, having started at 0730 in the morning, and my reactions were slowing.

Until the sky became fairly dark, the car was a bit reluctant to use main beam but at that time, while I might have selected main beam manually it wasn't really needed and as the light levels fell, main beam started being selected more often.

The exception to the adaptive main beam switching being ideal is that the lights are sometimes a bit reluctant to go to main. In typical narrow Devon lanes with high hedges, or when there are large reflective signs around, the car might try main beam, be dazzled by the amount of light coming back, and go to dip and stay there. A bit annoying sometimes, although seldom a big problem.

Long-range lighting on dual carriageways with no other traffic in front (and that includes the car holding on to dip while overtaking but going to main as soon as I was clear of the other car) and showing up cats-eyes well into the distance was excellent. I was carrying a fair bit of junk on roof bars and keeping speeds to 60-ish, so too slow for "motorway" mode.

Very few tuning options for LED lights in the MMI, apart from some kind of sensitivity control, but I think that that is more to do with how soon the headlights come on in auto mode rather than anything to do with the adaptive lighting. Overall, I'm happy with the way the LEDs work although, again as I have mentioned, I'm not convinced that they are worth the money over adaptive xenon. "Adaptive" is the key, though - I wouldn't want to drop back to a purely manual dip switch!