MMI Navigation Plus / Online Services / Mobile Phones

[sunders]

So, I picked up my A7 on Saturday. It's pretty much specced up with every available extra, so I had a great 300 mile round trip to try out the Adaptive Cruise, Side Assist, Lane Assist, Air Suspension etc. etc.

Totally awesome car. Definitely the best all rounder I've ever owned. If you're considering buying one and have any specific questions let me know and I'll do my best to help.

However, there is one niggle which I don't know whether it's down to me or the car and that is navigation and communications.

When I picked up the car I paired my iPhone 4 very easily and was immediately able to make and receive calls hands free, see my contacts and missed calls on the dash etc. I could also stream audi from the iPod or Spotify apps via bluetooth which is very convenient compared to having to dock in my previous car (which would work fine for the iPod app but not Spotify).

Anyway, when I got the car home I thought I'd try out some of the online services functions such as using Google Earth as the navigation map and the in car wifi hotspot. Neither would work with my iPhone connected via bluetooth. So, I took the SIM card out of my laptop dongle and slotted that straight into the socket in the dash. This immediately made the Google earth work and the wifi hotspot, but caused the iPhone to disconnect via bluetooth.

So, my conclusion is that the you can't use a SIM card and a bluetooth handset simultaneously, which just seems dumb.

Clearly, I want people to be able to call me on my usual mobile number when I'm in the car and so I want to use my iPhone via bluetooth. Also, I want to be able to use the car's tech to the fullest, which it appears I can only do by using a seperate SIM card.

Does anybody else have any experience of this on the A7 or the other cars that provide Online Services?

[shabazmo]

Hi Sunders,
Firstly congratulations on your new A7. It reads like a great speced car. From what I know we are the only 2 people on the forum with A7s. Please post some pics and detail the extras that you have. Ideally on your signature.

Regarding the phone connection, i am able to use the phone and google maps at the same time. Although I am not an expert, i know that there are 2 ways of setting up your phone, "handsfree" which gives limited functionality or "carphone" which has fuller access. My old blackberry did not allow me to set it up as carphone but my new one does, so maybe the iphone is not fully compatible. If you have a choice of connecting handsfree or carphone choose carphone on the MMI. Perhaps you could disconnect the phone and try again.
Although I have had the car for 6 weeks, I have not had much time to play with all the gadgets, but am reading the manual so i can understand every feature.
Let me know how you get on and i will experiment with my car and give you feedback.
PS. Do you have the Homelink facility? If so, does it work. I am having problems with mine.
Regards

[Architex_mA8tey]

Hi Sunders and congrats on your new A7!
Im looking at speccing mine at the mo with a view to October delivery (hopefully 3.0 tdi quattro se or sport)
Im wondering if this is to do with needing tethering set up on your iphone so that it can share the wifi connection with the A7 whilst the phone still works as a phone? I will look into this as I am in another A8 soon which has this and have tethering set up already
As Shabazmo said - lets see pics pics pics!!
Do either of you have a HUD on yours ? Id love to see more pics of what the dash looks like when you have it and what features you get on the screen etc

[shabazmo]

head up display pictures on prevous post below. You are welcome to test mine.

http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?117299-New-a7

[aurora7]

Hi Sunders,

Have you found out any more on this? I've experienced exactly the same thing in my new A7 (iPhone 4 paired fine, but disconnected when I put the SIM from my 3G dongle into the SIM card slot). Really annoying, in what is otherwise a technically feature rich and fantastic car. But I want to be able to use googlemaps and online services at the same time as receiving calls on my connected iPhone 4 and this doesn't seem possible unless I've missed something??

Thanks.....

[agw82]

I think you are going to be a little bit out of luck I'm afraid guys :( still waiting for final confirmation but having a SIM in the dash will override the Bluetooth handset.

Whilst I agree to a point that this is possibly an oversight on Audi's part, this is also an iPhone issue. If our dear friends at Apple weren't such control freaks they would have given the iPhone rSAP and you wouldn't be having this issue..

[AndyMic]

agw82 is correct.
I have had this confirmed by an Audi dealer.
There are three options I can find.
1. Replace the iPhone with an rSAP enabled phone such as the Samsung Galaxy 5
2. Use the Orange 1Number service (only available to business users)
3. Get an additional SIM and forward your calls to it when in the vehicle.

Bummer really.
I've tried to get information on the iPhone 5 and IOS 5 to see if they'll be implementing the SAP bluetooth protocol but I've not had any luck getting sufficient detail.

Andy

[AndyMic]

For clarification....

Orange 1Number gives you two SIMs on the same number.

[agw82]

iOS 5 does not support rSAP I'm afraid :( so it's very unlikely the iPhone 5 will support it.

I can definitely recommend the Galaxy S and Galaxy S II for anyone thinking about switching...

[IkaMega]

The latest update to the iPhone iOS 4.3 now has 'Hotspot' which is a tethering facility which enables 4 other devices to use the phone as a standalone base station.

This is done simply by activating the feature on your phone.

However, although this is now possible with the latest iOS 4.3 it is dependent on you Carrier allowing tethering on your package.

In the UK the Carrier '3' will allow tethering but some others do not.

I have not personally tried to use this latest feature on the iPhone but I believe that it would work.

I have just bought an iPhone 4 for my daughter and ordered the latest Audi A6 Avant for my wife, but I will have to wait until November before the car comes from Germany.

[aurora7]

Hi,

Tethering works fine with IOS 4.3, (carrier and service plan permitting) but unfortunately it doesn't really help with the crux of the problem in this thread.

My original hope when getting online services with the A7 was to stick a separate sim card into the slot in the dash, one that was optimised for data not voice and was reasonably cheap (e.g. a payg sim from 3). I wanted this to provide the google maps service into the sat nav (which is absolutely great, especially the search facility).

Separately I wanted to carry on using my iPhone as a phone, and a provider of podcasts etc. I don't want to use my iPhone as a provider of data services, as it's a company phone and it wouldn't endear me to my employer :-). So my "plan" was perfect (I thought) - carry on using company phone for voice and music, and use a cheap sim for data.... just that it doesn't work because the A7 won't support both running at the same time.

Anyway, my workaround so far has been to use the online services occasionally to get all the maps downloaded in my area (they keep a cached version of googlemaps in the satnav which is good) and when stationary to search for a location. I might end up getting a separate sim card and forward my calls to it when in the car (AndyMic's option 3 above) or live in hope that an upgrade one day solves it.

Hope your wife enjoys her new A6 when it comes - another very promising car in the Audi line-up!

[IkaMega]

Hello Aurora7,

That's a tough one!
Even if you could use the one-number-two-sims option it would still bill your work phone for the data consumed.
How about persuading your company to provide you with 'The One Plan' from 3. That would give you unlimited data and so the company would not be out of pocket and you would be able to use your iPhone properly in the car?

The plan is not cheap at £35 per month but maybe you could make up the difference?

This is fairly cutting edge technology for cars at the moment and so I would not expect any changes from Audi, such as enabling the sytem to use two different sims, any time soon.

It would be interesting to know though whether this degree of technology in the car is now able to accept firmware upgrades from either a CD or an SD card. That could lead to the ability for car owners to upgrade the system as the technology advances.

We are looking forward to November when the new A6 Avant arrives; no parking or lane assist goodies as we live in the country and when we visit the town we have our own car park space.
However we seem to be having most other things, Technology pack, Comfort Pack, Comfort seats, Bi-Xenons, Head Up Display and a special paint job; Palace Blue Pearl.
Also, as we live on the top of hills, an extra set of wheels with Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D winter tyres on.

The one aspect of the latest Audi I am not familiar with is the ability to use voice control.
How effective is it, and what can be controlled?

I am familiar with using it on my own car, a Jaguar, but only for radio and music control.

[AndyMic]

Our O2 business plan has unlimited free calls to other O2 mobiles so forwarding to another SIM won't incur a cost for me.
The issue would still remain in your scenario as the blutooth connection is disabled when you insert a SIM into the vehicle preventing you from receiving hands free calls on the iPhone.

[aurora7]

AndyMic - agreed, the key issue here is that bluetooth gets disabled when a SIM is inserted in the dashboard. In fact, I haven't yet managed to get it to re-enable bluetooth again when the dashboard SIM is removed - requires either a reboot of the phone or re-start of the engine, neither of which particularly useful when driving :-)

I was thinking of getting a personal SIM but not a personal phone, if that makes sense? i.e. I would stick the SIM in the dash, get calls and data services whilst in the car, but never actually connect it to a handset. Handset remains on bluetooth or wired, but just providing music etc. and diverting calls to the dashboard SIM whilst in the car.

On the other hand, my workarounds are now getting so convoluted that I might just give up and pretend I never ordered online services!!

[aurora7]

Hi Ikamega

The speech dialogue system on the A7 is quite feature rich. I haven't fully tested it yet but it has several enhancements over the system on my old car (A8), which I used to use very regularly, notably, a "training" module which takes you through 40 speech tests, which it stores, so that it can more accurately diagnose what you are telling it. I haven't yet worked through all the training as I keep starting it in traffic jams, (it pops up a set of 4 numbers and asks you to recite them in the way you would speak), but once you start moving again the training stops! Very safe ;-)

In general the speech dialogue can be used as a short cut to most of the MMI options you would choose for phone, navigation, traffic reports, radio and media etc. The benefit is that you can do it all without navigating the MMI so that does save time in many cases, especially when your voice is understood. So for example you could say "next petrol station" rather than going through a sequence on the MMI, which is quite useful at times.

I suspect that, because of the training module which presumably ensures the system understands your voice commands well, the downside will be that other drivers may not have their voices recognised as accurately (or at all). I haven't tested this.

But essentially, if the new A6 system is the same at the A7's, which it probably is, then it's another good tool in the Audi collection.

[Slugsy001]

I'm having the same issues albeit with a new A6 and an iPhone 4.

I don't have any issues re cost of data, does anyone know if this 'hotspot' fixes the issues or it remains?

[agw82]

I'm having the same issues albeit with a new A6 and an iPhone 4.

I don't have any issues re cost of data, does anyone know if this 'hotspot' fixes the issues or it remains?

The issue will always remain for as long as Apple refuse to build in rSAP functionality to iPhones (iPhone 5 is no exception!) the only options are as discussed above 1. A dedicated SIM to go in the dash and forward your calls from the iPhone to the SIM in the dash. or 2. Get a phone with rSAP support which is just about anything other than an iPhone (slightly facetious) but most new phones do support rSAP especially Android devices.

[Architex_mA8tey]

I notice on the latest 2012 Spec A7 brochure they have now added -
"A Bluetooth-capable mobile phone can be conveniently connected to the vehicle's internal UMTS module (provided the mobile telephone has a SIM Access Profile. Please note iPhones do not have SIM access profile and therefore a duplicate SIM card would need to be sourced from your network provider and inserted directly into dashboard of the A7). An additional SIM card reader is also located in the surround of the MMI Navigation Plus to allow transfer of phone book entries to the vehicle and management of call lists"
So Audi are recommending the duplicate sim solution, but of course the provision of that varies from provider to provider and contract to contract I guess ?

[Slugsy001]

Yep, I have been told O2 do not provide this service and I would struggle to get it off anyone else. This is on a corporate contract as well!

Crazy stuff in this day and age!

[agw82]

From what i can see Vodafone and Orange are the only providers to offer Multi-SIM

http://business.orange.co.uk/home/small/products-and-services/services-and-accounts/voice-services/single-number

http://help.vodafone.co.uk/system/selfservice.controller?CMD=VIEW_ARTICLE&ARTICLE_ID=15015&PARTITION_ID=1&CONFIGURATION=1000&CURRENT_CMD=SEARCH&PAGE_TITLE=Basic%20Search&SIDE_LINK_TOPIC_ID=&SIDE_LINK_SUB_TOPIC_ID=&SIDE_LINK_TOPIC_INDEX=null&SIDE_LINK_SUB_TOPIC_INDEX=null

[agw82]

Ok so it looks like Vodafone have actually scrapped the service..... :(

[Slugsy001]

Trying something today and will report back!

[Slugsy001]

Ok, I can report a solution for my issue with an iPhone 4 but I would say it isn't ideal.

I now have a data only Sim card in the dash and my phone hooked up via Bluetooth.

It isn't perfect but I now have the wifi working and google earth. Clearly it means my phone signal is still dependent on the phone rather than the car. Additionally it is costing the business a data tariff for the SIM but that worked out cheaper than getting a new rSAP phone.

[agw82]

Ok, I can report a solution for my issue with an iPhone 4 but I would say it isn't ideal.

I now have a data only Sim card in the dash and my phone hooked up via Bluetooth.

It isn't perfect but I now have the wifi working and google earth. Clearly it means my phone signal is still dependent on the phone rather than the car. Additionally it is costing the business a data tariff for the SIM but that worked out cheaper than getting a new rSAP phone.

Did you have to get a software update on the MMI? I'm sure people have reported bluetooth handsets disconnecting when a SIM is inserted into the dash..

[Slugsy001]

Update! It's now not working!

Originally the Audi rep used their T-mobile SIM card and it worked! I got an O2 one and it doesn't work, cuts the telephone off when the SIM is in the car.

Got Audi looking at it on Monday who swear it should work and I'll update thereafter!

[Slugsy001]

Ok, final conclusion!

After my car being in the Audi garage for last 3 days and the dealership managing director having conversations with Germany, the upshot is there is no solution if you don't have a rSAP phone or able to get duplicate SIM card!

I am going to use a data card periodically to update maps/google earth and I want to use it as a WLAN then I won't have the phone enabled at that time ie kids on a iPad.

The guy said they are revising their sales pitch and training because of it and anyone requesting technology pack from now on/preparation high will be informed of the issue but scant consolation!

Upshot is - don't have an iPhone/blackberry and an Audi!!!!!!

[Architex_mA8tey]

Update from me - my new A7 is due to be delivered to me on or about the 9th September. Its a 3.0 TDi Quattro S-Line in Daytona Grey and has the technology pack and Bose amongst the Add-ons.

I've managed to arrange "Orange Single Number" and therefore a second sim as luckily my contract at work is already with Orange (I use and like the iPhone so don't really want to change). So I will get it up and running and report back - there are a couple of ways I can set it up :
1. Ask for the car sim to be made my "Primary device" then whenever I get into the car and turn it on it will always over-ride the mobile as the phone plus providing the data.
2. Make the Phone my Primary mobile device and then turn it off whenever i get into the car which will then ensure that the car becomes both the mobile and data connection.

The benefit of the second option is that I can choose to leave the mobile on if I want it to still ring to the mobile and the data sim in the car will still do google maps, the benefit of the first is that I wont have to think about it and switch over to the car will be totally automatic whether I leave the phone on or not.
What do people think? I will report back once its up and running!

[Slugsy001]

Sounds ideal, the key being that you are with Orange which now is the only provider that allows you to do this!

[Slugsy001]

Sorry, it sounds like option 1 would be ideal, not sure what the downside to that is?

[Architex_mA8tey]

Sorry, it sounds like option 1 would be ideal, not sure what the downside to that is?

Sorry I should have said I have a business phone and a personal phone so the advantage of option 2 is that I can leave the business phone switched on, use the bluetooth to connect the personal mobile to the car then still use the sim in the dash for data/google etc. It just leaves it flexible either way but requires me to think about it and intervene lol

[gregpawley]

Hi I have collected my new A6 today (I know worng forum), I have managed to connect my phone Nokia E7-00 Running the latest Nokia Anna software, the phone connects fine to the car using the remote sim profile (RSAP), however I cannot get any data connection, the car has full 3G siginal. and the APN appears to be correct (internet, web, web), even tried the sim card straight into the dash and still no joy.

Has anyone had any success getting a Nokia E7-00 (same as N8 or C7), or use the sim card and connecting to vodafone?

[a8 tech]

http://microsites.audi.com/ngw_assets/mobile_db/en_UK/index.html

select the phone c7 is listed, click on the information button for online services and read it then contact your network provider and ask them if the sim is active for data services

[smsabc]

Just picked up my New A7 last week and I've also just discovered to my great disappointment that using an iPhone 4 via bluetooth and a separate sim card in the dash to get Google maps, etc, disconnects the phone. I had a long chat on the phone yesterday with Audi Tech support, who confirmed that is how it is!! (Why didn't they say something about this before I bought it?) I asked the question to three different dealers before I ordered the car and they all said I could use the phone and google maps/wireless hotspot, etc at the. Same time. There was nothing on Audi's website or their printed info that said this couldn't be done, but now they have updated it to say that it can't. (I think there's some misselling issues here and I'm surprised Audi aren't being pressed by more customers to compensate for this!).

As with the many others in this forum, this is a great disappointment to what is otherwise a fantastic car. Yes, I realise that iPhones also don't help by not being a rSAP device, but in my case I'm happy to stay with using my phone via a Bluetooth connection in the car and only use the sim card in the dashboard for data only to access Google maps,etc. Surely Audi can sort this out, as there are so many people with the same issue? Interestingly, the person I spoke to from Audi Tech support agreed with me and said he was an iPhone user as well and experienced the same frustrations. He said it's just in the UK that these problems occur as telco's elsewhere allow duplicate (cloned) sims to be supplied.

My iPhone (on O2) is set up for tethering so I can use it as a modem for my laptop to connect to the web via wifi or Bluetooth. I thought trying to set up a data connection with my car via this route might do the trick, but unfortunately Ive been told by Audi that that wont work either. Has anyone been able to get tethering to work, or has been able to resolve this issue (other than get rid of the iPhone or change to Orange business)?

Surely with so many Audi customers all over the world being frustrated and annoyed by this problem how can Audi not release an update that will allow users to select their phone handset as the default phone they wish to use rather than the dash mounted sim card? Perhaps we shoul all start a campaign for compensation? All sensible comments appreciated please. Many thanks

[MFGF]

I have a new A6 on order (with the Technology Pack specified) and an iPhone 4 on Vodafone. I was hoping I could get a PAYG sim for the dash and have both online data services in the car and my iPhone connected via Bluetooth, but reading this thread has dashed my hopes. Thanks for the informative posts - at least now I will not be too disappointed when the car arrives.

Cheers!

MF


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[m3-fast]

Got an A7 on order and only the other week, the salesman said that I would be able to access data services, provide wi-fi AND have the phone connected to the car via bluetooth.

Quite disappointed that this is the case, and surely a major design flaw!! Let's hope they get enough complaints and poor feedback through the dealer network to reolve it, at least on future builds if it is hardware related.

[soofsayer]

Hi All,

It doesn't make any sense to be able to have your SIM in the car dash and the phone connected by bluetooth and then use the phone. The phone connects by bluetooth to an accessory - ie. hands free kit etc. By connecting the phone to the car by bluetooth you are simply using the car as the extension of the phone, so wanting the phone to use the accessory for SIM services is never going to happen, it is not a design flaw by Audi.

The real problem is two-fold:

1 - My network O2 will not provide dual sims.
2 - Apple have built their products without SAP - thanks Jobs RIP!

In Europe dual sims are available, and most non iphone smartphones have a SAP so this isn't a problem.

It is a very simple process to remove your SIM from your iphone, pop it into a free SIM adaptor (the iphone sim is a micro sim, you need the full sized sim to slot into the car port) - you can get the sim adaptor for free in any O2 shop - and then push it into the dash. All phone and online services are then available.

For me at least, this is the only option if I want to use online services at the moment, however we will be reviewing our company smartphones in the new year!

I am going to try out the hotspot usage as well as I have never activated it in the car (good one for a rainy sunday afternoon).

Yesterday I found the Audi online owners portal where you can send google journeys directly to the car via online services. I'm going to try this out as well today. Anyone done this yet?

https://secure-www.audi.com/com/brand/en/tools/myaudi.htx/

[soofsayer]

Just tried the above with 100% success.

iPhone (with sim in dash, not phone) connects to the WLAN and can pull down data to the phone, tested using email between accounts. Online services connected and pulled down a destination I had stored and sent via myaudi. 3G services live and kicking.

So essentially, apart from the inconvenience of taking the SIM out of the phone and putting it into the car dashboard everything works perfectly.

[a8 tech]

Spot on
Sent from my iPhone using
My fat fingers

[m3-fast]

This IS a design flaw by Audi - they must realise by now that the iphone is one of the most popular and widely supported phones on the market.

Why not do what BMW do and provide the car with an in-built SIM for all data services. All paid for during the first 3 years of ownership and then a small annual fee for the people that want to carry it on?

This is how my M3 works - I can access Google online and still have my iphone connected via Bluetooth.

Not rocket science, surely?

OR allow a seperate SIM to be inserted to the dash and offer the option to still have a seperate bluetooth connection to a seperate device.

[MFGF]

It sometimes takes me a couple of minutes of fiddling to eject the sim card from my iPhone 4. I would then have to install the microsim into a sim carrier before slotting it into the car. Getting out would be the reverse. I don't imagine the sim tray in my iPhone 4 is designed to be constantly opened and closed, even with the supplied pointy instrument Apple put into the box, and I imagine it would become loose over time with repeated use. It really isn't a viable option to install the sim into the car on every journey. A different sim permanently in the car would make more sense, but since Vodafone don't offer a dual sim option, I would need my phone connected via bluetooth at the same time. I wonder if Audi could tweak the software to allow a bluetooth hfp connection from the phone to stay active while using the dash-mounted sim for online services? One for the Audi Suggestion Box, I think. :)

MF.

[smsabc]

I totally agree. It IS A DESIGN FLAW BY AUDI. For goodness sake, even some of their sales people are still selling the car with the (obvious) understanding that you CAN use your phone via Bluetooth while using the sim card in the dash for data connections at the same time (see m3- fast's post). In my experience I've had to correct 3 different Audi sales people recently that it doesn't work that way (or should I say - work properly!- like BMW's system does, etc) and in every case they all expressed their surprise and disbelief commenting that it doesnt make sense NOT to work that way. When they go off and check with Audi they have all came back sheepishly with their tail between their legs confirming the worst.

It's just not practical to keep swapping a sim card from your phone to your car every time you use it. It's about time that Audi took hold of this problem and came up with a fix. It's not just on this forum that it's being discussed, there are lots of other posts about this issue on other forums too with many Audi customers annoyed and frustrated that they've also been sold a dummy as well . Oh and dont bother talking to Audi tech support or their :aargh4:customer service helpline about it, they just clam up and don't have an answer or a reply to why it's this way. I guess theyve been told not to comment on what must be a big embarrassment for Audi on what is otherwise a great car. We need more 'Progress Through Technolgy' (Vorsprung durch technik) to fix this!

[a8 tech]

removed

[MFGF]

I have seen it mentioned twice now that having a T-mobile sim in the dash still allows a Bluetooth hfp connection to work - once earlier in this thread by Slugsy and also over in the A6 C7 forum, where it was stated that cars in the USA come equipped with a T-mobile sim as standard for data services, and allow simultaneous Bluetooth connection for a phone.

I can't verify this, because my new car doesn't arrive until the end of April. Do any of you who use iPhones have a spare T-mobile payg sim you can try in the dash?

Just a thought :)

MF.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[a8 tech]

Be aware

SIM card not enabled for data services

Incorrect APN (e.g. flat-rate APN selected for a mobile telephone
with prepaid contract will not work

[MFGF]

Incorrect APN?That sounds suspiciously like a sim that doesn't have data services enabled - just the facility for calls and sms texts. Or am I misunderstanding what you put (which is normal service for a muppet like me! :) )

Cheers!

MF.

[a8 tech]

Correct apn doesn't support data and you are far from a muppet MFGF in fact you are wise in the dark art of Audi Infotainment systems more than you know

Happy Christmas Forum Friend

[MFGF]

:beerchug: Cheers A8. A happy Christmas to you and yours too!

[dgarside]

I've just ordered a T-mobile Pay as you go sim, and will try out next week to see if it works :-) fingers crossed :-)


Darren.

[MFGF]

I will be watching the outcome with great interest! Good luck Darren - fingers crossed it works as we hope :)


Snet form my fumblefingers
iPhon 5 usig Tapatalk

[dgarside]

Will let you all know :-)

Darren

[sebbie]

Will let you all know :-)

Darren

Ouch, I'm picking my new A6 in March 2012 and was told I can use online services with data SIM card + my iPhone4 for calls. I was advised I can't use iPhone data connection and I said I'm fine with it. It will be unpleasant (and pricey @ £1800) surprise if that's not possible.

Looking forward to any update from you, I don't mind getting T-Mobile PAYG card for data if that's the solution.

PS: I checked with "o2 guru" and none of reasonably modern (BB9900, iPhone 4S) handset (except Galaxy S2 which I'm not happy with) has SIM Access Profile.

[dgarside]

Got the t-mobile sim today, and all activated ready for Tuesday.... Fingers crossed, or could be a bit upset with Audi :-)

Darren.

[dgarside]

Well bad news, on initial tests the T-mobile sim seems to behave (as expected to be honest) the same as other people have found, and disconnects the Bluetooth when inserted.

I'm going to have a good play around with it over the next few days/evenings, and will let you all know if I find anything any different.

Darren.

[MFGF]

Thanks for the update. I was hoping for a good result but I'm not surprised (like you) at the result.

On the upside, enjoy the new car!!

MF.

[sebbie]

Well bad news, on initial tests the T-mobile sim seems to behave (as expected to be honest) the same as other people have found, and disconnects the Bluetooth when inserted.

I'm going to have a good play around with it over the next few days/evenings, and will let you all know if I find anything any different.

Darren.

I found this suggestion it should work:


All the driver of the new A6 needs to go online is a data-capable SIM card. The card reader is located in the MMI navigation plus trim. Alternatively, the driver can connect a private cellular phone to the system via Bluetooth if the phone supports the SIM Access Profile. No additional fees or special contracts are required; Audi does recommend a flat rate, however, due to the large amounts of data involved. The Bluetooth car phone online offers a range of convenient services.

I also found some german Audi forum (I didn't bookmark it and can't find it now) on which they stated you have to go through pair wizard properly - they claimed you'll have two options "car phone" and "speakerphone", if you're using SIM card for data they claimed it is important to select second option. It shouldn't disconnect Bluetooth phone then but there were few users who selected "car phone" and their phone keeps disconnecting. They claimed re-pairing as "speakerphone" helped. "Car phone" and "speakerphone" is direct translation so may be inaccurate or named differently in MMI. I can't verify how accurate this data is as my car hasn't arrived yet.

Dgarside, do you have this options in your MMI pairing?

[dgarside]

Hi, yes I have the MMi plus/technology pack which has the SIM card reader.

The problem seems to be that even when you use the 'hands free' option the Bluetooth phone can't coexist with the SIM card. The SIM card overrides the bluetooth and expects you to use that for telephone calls.

I have two phones I use business and home, with work being a new Blackberry 9680 and home being an iPhone 4. The Blackberry should allow me to use SAP but for some reason I can get right to the last sync point and it fails. If I can get this working then I have a half way house, as the MMI data can come from my work phone. I'm going to carry on trying stuff, but at the moment I'm hoping for Audi assistance to resolve.... may call into the garage at some point to get them to look at it (I.e. escalate it to Audi).

Darren.

[sebbie]

Hi, yes I have the MMi plus/technology pack which has the SIM card reader.

The problem seems to be that even when you use the 'hands free' option the Bluetooth phone can't coexist with the SIM card. The SIM card overrides the bluetooth and expects you to use that for telephone calls.
Darren.

Thanks Darren. Do you have two different options in your MMI: "hands free" and "car phone" or something similar?

People on german forum claimed you have to switch from "car phone" to "hands free only". Always worth give a call to Audi and book for service, they have comprehensive database and iPhones are so popular these days this must already been sorted by someone!

[dgarside]

Yes the Blackberry gives you two options 'car phone' and 'handsfree'. The iPhone only gives you the options of 'handsfree'.

I'm going to drop an email to Audi and garage to see if I can push this further.

Cheers

Darren.

[sebbie]

Yes the Blackberry gives you two options 'car phone' and 'handsfree'. The iPhone only gives you the options of 'handsfree'.

I'm going to drop an email to Audi and garage to see if I can push this further.

Cheers

Darren.

Look at this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx5utijhzDA

on bottom you can see two reception signals (3G data and Bluetooth). This shows it is possible although doesn't explain how to configure it.

[dgarside]

Yeah I saw this video and posted about it, this was the reason for the testing of a T-mobile SIM. This is the standard Audi package you can get in US, so thought it was worth a shot.

Hmmmm, if it doesn't work in UK then that would suggest we have different hardware for telephone module.

Not beaten just yet.... :-)

[dgarside]

This is the one which gives us hope :-)

[MFGF]

I am watching this thread with great interest!!

[dgarside]

Thought you would be :-)

[nealeb]

Not convinced that the video clip has anything to do with simultaneous use of SIM and bluetooth-to-phone. The fact that BT appears to be enabled while the SIM is in use doesn't in itself mean anything as the car might be using the BT connection for an A2DP link, say, to an MP3 player. Only academic interest to me, though, as my hewn-from-the-granite Nokia is a long way from being an iPhone but still supports RSAP. All you iPhone owners will just have to wait until Apple bring out the iCar, although it probably won't run on the same roads as anyone else...

(seems to be quite a few A6 owners straying over here to talk about MMI/SIM/BT issues:))

[MFGF]

(seems to be quite a few A6 owners straying over here to talk about MMI/SIM/BT issues:))

:) :) But you love us really :) :)




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[dgarside]

What about the double signal strengths? rather than just the BT connection symbols.... You could still be right but not something I've seen on any UK spec. cars to date.

[nealeb]

I see what you mean. On some of the screen shots there is just the BT symbol plus a single signal strength indicator, which is what I had remembered, but as you point out there are also screens which show BT with a SS indicator plus a separate what-appears-to-be-data-connection-related indicator with its own SS indicator. I have my Nokia configured to use RSAP which works fine and my wife has her iPhone configured to use the car as an oversize headset, which also works fine. Neither of us has a spare SIM card or the desire to fish one out of a working phone to experiment further! Haven't actually tried any of the online data features of the car yet, even via the RSAP route.

[dgarside]

Afraid to say this looks like there is no work around at the moment. Audi garage has confirmed that they had similar problems with an A8 customer this week and couldn't get any resolution for them.

:-( let's hope an update comes around soon.

Darren.

[m3-fast]

I am colleting my Audi A7 on friday and have planned in advance for this 'failing' on Audi's part.

I have just had delivered today a duplicate Orange SIM - they call it 'one number' and it allows the same mobile number/account to be used in 2 different devices. I can alter which one is the primary device and also which device rings first.

I will have the iphone set as the primary device and the car set as the secondary device.

I will then set the secondary device to ring first (so if the car is running that will pick up the phone call) and if the car is off, the primary device will ring instead.

That is the only solution that I can see working at the moment - only downside will be is if the missus is using the car, she will need to pop out the sim card otherwise all my calls will call the car instead of my phone.

[dgarside]

Yep I think I'd agree with you, unfortunately if you aren't on Orange business you're a bit screwed.

I have emailed Audi UK direct regarding the issue to see what they have to say and if this could be fixed in a future update.... Let's hope for everyone's sake... real shame with such a good car.

Darren.

[sebbie]

I have just had delivered today a duplicate Orange SIM - they call it 'one number' and it allows the same mobile number/account to be used in 2 different devices. I can alter which one is the primary device and also which device rings first.

I will have the iphone set as the primary device and the car set as the secondary device.


I wonder if this will cause any side effects like text messages received in car won't be available on iPhone, can iPhone still transfer phone book and calls list to car?

Obviously ideal option will be the way BMW did it - SIM card for data only and phone via bluetooth.

[dgarside]

Yeah you get phone book and calls list on the car.

[sebbie]

Yeah you get phone book and calls list on the car.

If that's the case then it means car is using data via UMTS using inserted card and using Bluetooth at the same time to pull phone book, calls list data. Doesn't make much sense to me...:confused:

[dgarside]

I might be confusing you a little here.... The phone book and calls list is available when the phone is connected on Bluetooth but the sim card is not. When the sim card is in, the calls list and phone book comes from the sim card.

[sebbie]

I might be confusing you a little here.... The phone book and calls list is available when the phone is connected on Bluetooth but the sim card is not. When the sim card is in, the calls list and phone book comes from the sim card.

Thanks for clarification. I think I'll complain to Audi UK and live without data for the time being.

My car is due to be in UK early March, fingers crossed maybe they will sort this problem with update or something.

[m3-fast]

lol I ordered my car in November and it was due in May (it wasnt even supposed to be built until week 13!) - it is here already and I collect it on friday

I would check that it isn't sitting at the dealers already :) When did you order it?

[m3-fast]

The primary device will still receive the text messages etc..

[sebbie]

lol I ordered my car in November and it was due in May (it wasnt even supposed to be built until week 13!) - it is here already and I collect it on friday

I would check that it isn't sitting at the dealers already :) When did you order it?

I ordered it early November and was given June 2012 estimate due to custom paint (I'm getting sprint blue). When build was scheduled in December, collection date was revised to early March. Salesman gives me good update on build progress, he will let me know when car will be in UK.

[dgarside]

I have emailed Audi UK following similar feedback from dealer, but not had any reply as yet.

[sebbie]

The primary device will still receive the text messages etc..

If I understood it properly you have to set car as primary device which means iPhone won't receive some of my text messages. For me that is unacceptable.

Lucky you with new car on Friday, I guess you know what you're doing for a weekend!:biglaugh:

[s555]

Nothing useful to add, but found this thread when googling this exact problem.

I've got a new A6, a separate data SIM and an iPhone. Seems a fairly common combination that Audi didn't consider!

I cannot speak for everyone here, but chances are that people that spend money on enhanced nav with google earth are going to like their toys... So it seems reasonable that they will also have a smartphone (iphone maybe) and want to use it in their car to make calls at the same time as they use their toys.

Now, I understand that Apple have spoiled the party by not allowing the car to use the phone as a data bridge.. But, I like my toys, so I am happy to overlook that and buy a separate SIM exclusively for the car... But this is where Audi have messed up, as this wont work.

I bet it's a simple software fix for this, so everyone phone your dealer and demand it :-)

[Architex_mA8tey]

I've got single number on mine too with the primary number being my iPhone and the secondary number being the car sim. I deliberately chose this way around so that if I turn the phone off as I get into the car then all my calls come through the car sim and if I keep it on then the car sim just acts as a data sim and I can choose to either answer the phone if I'm not driving or let it go to voicemail if I am. It just leaves it more flexible. I also have a personal iPhone separate from my work one and when I want to use that I just push click the sim so it's still in its slot but not fully in and therefore not being read. I then have Bluetooth already paired on my personal phone and it links by Bluetooth fine for my calls until I push the sim card back in fully. The google earth sat Nav is normally still operating ok as it has downloaded about 20 miles radius of maps so unless youre driving miles then the google maps still works but just doesn't update. If its an issue then I just de-select google sat Nav option and use the normal mapping

[dgarside]

Update...

After my email to Audi UK I've had a phone call from them today regarding this issue. They are fully aware of the problem and even internal people within Audi are having the same problem. They are working on a solution to the problem, but cannot at the minute give a time scale. The Audi representative said it was hoped to be in the region of weeks, to allow for thorough testing before releasing to customers.

He also asked me to stay in touch with trying to get my Blackberry to work, which should work on SAP but problems have been reported due to security settings in particular related to Enterprise server. I've tried again tonight but cannot get it to work on car phone (Blackberry Torch 9680).

I must say the telephone call was very supportive rather than 'sorry that's how it works' which I was sort of expecting. Even though the issue isn't resolved, I'm more than happy to give time to sort it out with how they handled my email.

Thanks Audi UK, let's hope we get it sorted out sooner rather than later.

[gbjk]

Guys,

I'm about to buy an audi a6 with all the options (Sorry - I know I'm interloping into an A7 thread).

I have an iphone, and I'm on vodafone. I don't envision changing either.
I could get a pay as you go sim, but then I'd be wasting my contract minutes and data usage on vodafone, since many of my calls are from the car.

I have the advantage of getting to read this all before I actually place my order, which is great.

So my two questions are:
1) I actually envisioned plugging my phone *in* a lot of the time.
One of my remaining questions for audi was about how car adaptors for iphone work - is it a convenient slot in situation similar to the bmw.

2) Even if I know this up front, what could or should I change here?
I planned on getting the technology package - and there isn't a cheaper option to get everything I want but exclude the data services anyway.

One of the things I care about the most is playing music from my iphone, anyway.

Thanks

Gareth

[gbjk]

So - impatient as I am, I started to look at the way that I could implement rSAP for iphone. ( I'm a programmer, and I've being working on iphone apps recently anyway ).

Turns out that someone's already done it. Didn't surprise me too much.

Note: I have *not* tried this yet, but i see no reason it won't work.

http://moreinfo.thebigboss.org/moreinfo/depiction.php?file=rsapserverDp

The solution just uses a different bluetooth stack.
Obviously you'll need a jailbroken iphone, but tbh it's only recently I stopped using a jailbroken phone anyway, and that was because I needed to get it replaced due to a broken screen. I didn't see enough of a reason to bother jailbreaking again, since ioS 5.0 had much of what I wanted in it anyway. This is definitely enough of a reason to do it though. The only drawback I had was that there wasn't an untethered 5.0 jailbreak, but again, I could live with a tethered jailbreak for this.

So, I can't actually tell you if it works until I get an a6, which won't be until it's delivered in late April.

If anyone wants to try it in the meantime, great! Or if you're near Gatwick, I'll try it on my phone + your car :)

Hope this sheds some glimmer of hope on the situation.
Also hope it doesn't turn out to be a unicorn!

Gareth

[soofsayer]

Hi Gareth,

Before I jailbreak my iphone I wanted to clarify:

Are you saying then that (in theory) implementing rSAP as above on the iphone will allow the car to use the SIM in the iphone for data via the BTstack bluetooth connection?

I was about to upgrade to an Android phone so this could be a timely result.

Has anyone had success yet?

Thanks.

[gbjk]

soofsayer,

Yep, that's exactly what I was saying.

However there's some doubt thrown on this which I don't understand - it seems to only work on the 3GS. That makes no sense to me yet, so I'll look into it.

In my experience: There's nothing horrific about jailbreaking, anyway. You can just restore afterwards.

I've never seen an android phone I'd take instead of the iphone 4 anyway, though.

Gareth

[Architex_mA8tey]

Its probable that I will be down near you with work in the next couple of weeks Gareth so it might be worth exchanging contacts and me giving you a call to see if we can prove or otherwise the theory on my A7 using your phone?
Cheers
Neil

[gbjk]

Neil,

Yeah, that could probably work.

Though I'm going to be trying to avoid A7s! They're gorgeous, and I've just bought an A6!

G

[gbjk]

iphone 4 support is available in the latest version.

The forum for information is here: http://www.jens-david-consulting.com/en/forum/5-iphone-rsap-server/4-support-to-iphone-4-with-ios5?limit=6&start=96

HTH

[len marriott]

Hi all
Have been trying this software over the last two days. It seems so far that version 1.25 the version on Cydia,looses connection after a short time, well in my case anyway. The version 1.27 that's not the released version, you can find a link to it on the Jens David site, at http://www.jens-david-consulting.com/en/forum/5-iphone-rsap-server/230-passat-b6-with-premium-bluetooth,
so far appears to almost work. It connects ok address book appears, phone works, but after say 5 mins address book disappears, although the connection to the phone stays active, will try downloading the address book to the car tomorrow and see how that goes. Google data also downloads ok.
Have been in contact via E mail with Jens David and I must say he has been very helpful. So will update you once I have any further info. My phone is a 3GS but as Garethsays version 1.27 supports the IPhone 4 it's seems.

[soofsayer]

I've jailbroken my iphone 4, running 5.01

When I go to Cydia and try to download RSAPserver I get an "Unable to Purchase" - This Product requires an iPhone2.

Had a look on the developers forum and the thread has been locked, seen another poster with the same problem.

If I've missed anything or a newer release comes along that will work please update the forum.

[len marriott]

I think you will find if you follow my earlier link It takes you to a web page were this address is dispayed http://www.jens-david-consulting.com/repo. You need to copy that address into Cydia - Go to Manage-Sources-Edit-Add Then enter the address, You should then be able to see the available updates, I cannot remember exactly how it goes from there but I think you can see the new (1.27) installation file. hope that helps.

An update on my earlier post. After making some setup changes it all seems to work ok. Phone and Google data working fine. My issue seemed to be about the network provider in my case Orange and the way sim aurthorisation works, but as i said with some setup changes now seems ok. My phone by the way is a 3GS.

Regards

[gbjk]

Len,

Can you point us to what "setup changes" those were?
Even if they're embarrassing, we might all make the same mistake otherwise!

Oh - And thanks for being the first guinea pig on this! I'd love to see if it works on an iphone 4 under 1.27.

Thanks

Gareth

[len marriott]

Hi Gareth
Yea sorry did meen to add that info.. In the RSAP server settings had to turn off both the Fix reopen and Simulate Reauth settings.
This was after talking to Jens Davis via e mail,So not my own work !! But as I said before this seems to be to do with the network so I assume these could vary dependant on your provider.

[soofsayer]

Slightly frustrated:

(This could be me not understanding Cydia)

Finally got my iphone4 to see the 1.27 rsap release after several reboots of the phone. However when I go to the product screen to download, I get no option to purchase, only install. Which I do, which then gives me a licence error message when I install it.

I am usually quite tech savvy but this is getting embarrasing.

So, I'm nearly there with an iphone4 on 5.01 running rsap 1.27, but not quite.......

Is this the problem having the 4 instead of the 3GS I wonder???

[len marriott]

See this link looks like you can get a temp licence

http://www.jens-david-consulting.com/en/forum/5-iphone-rsap-server/158-updates-and-iphone-4-version-in-local-repository

[mcwill]

It looks like v1.27 is on it's way to Cydia, and as a result temp licenses are no longer being distributed.

Forum link (http://www.jens-david-consulting.com/en/forum/5-iphone-rsap-server/4-support-to-iphone-4-with-ios5?limit=6&start=96)

[soofsayer]

Hi Mcwill,

yes you are right, email from the man himself this morning confirming:

Hello,

sorry, an iPhone 4 version is not on sale yet. We had a beta test program, but it is finished now.
A public free demo version and a commercial version will be available shortly in Cydia

[len marriott]

Just a quick update on the SAP software solution. Have been running now for some two days and getting varying results. Sometimes it works ok, sometimes not, it will not connect to the network. In contact with Jens David but not looking good, suggestion is its a network issue, my phone is on Orange. Would be interested in anyones results on other networks.

[nealeb]

Given that this is about the longest running thread on any Audi forum and is due entirely to iPhone/Audi incompatibility(*), and the fact that the iPhone may look pretty swish but doesn't seem to work too well as a phone anyway (given the amount of time that my wife and son spend supposedly communicating via their iPhones but actually saying, "I can't hear you!"), I think that my new phone ain't going to be an iPhone 'cos I'm not changing the A6:)

(*) "Jobs is king and can't do no wrong, therefore Audi are screwed up" versus "if Apple didn't make their kit just that little bit out of step with the rest of the world maybe it would actually interoperate with something not made by Apple"

[gbjk]

nealeb,

Actually, I was thinking about this myself, and funnily enough I came to the conclusion "There's only one iphone, but there's audi, bmw, jag and merc, all running a close race". That's taking it to extremes. Realistically, I'd take the audi, and live without the internet services.

I had no interest in the iphone 3 / 3GS. iOS was good, but the phone itself was bigger and just didn't feel right for me.

As soon as the iphone 4 came out, It ticked all the right boxes.

I use both android and iOS regularly, and I find that the iphone is *so* much better. The user interface is just 10% better,
and that 10% makes a huge difference. It means when you swipe, etc, it just "clicks into place" a bit faster.

I would have been optimistic that audi would fix this issue, but having seen a few car companies over the years fail to do similar things,
I'm not going to hold my breath.

BTW - to me, a simple solution is that the MMI should be able to connect to wifi hotspot offered by a phone, IMHO.

[len marriott]

I agree, I have a company Blackberry and that works just fine all on line services no probs. But its the fun of the chase, nothing like coming up with a solution for my personal Iphone against all odds, its seems.
Much prefer the IPhone to the Blackberry incidently. Of course you could just buy an old Nokia, that would work SAP profile not a problem, but where's the fun in that.

[kennyh]

Hi guys,

I pick up my A7 on Wednesday and having been reading this thread with interest, and disappointment!

Am I right in summarising that the 2 options to getting it working are:

1. Don't use an iPhone.

2. Take the SIM out of the iPhone, insert it into a micro-sim to SIM adaptor and stick in the dash.

Unfortunately the problem that still exists in that is that I cannot read emails (when I'm stationary of course).

Perhaps Audi should build an email app into the MMI?

Cheers


A7 in Oolong Grey (soon).

[len marriott]

Hi Kennyh
Am sure you will enjoy the car I do, it's great.
In terms of the iPhone that about sums it up. It will connect and work fine as a standard car phone over Bluetooth of course. But if you want on-line services etc, yes you are right, change your phone......

[smsabc]

I'm afraid so. iPhones don't work as a handsfree phone via the car when you have a sim card in the dashboard to use the online services. You can either use your phone as a hands free car phone or use the online functions such as Google maps or line searches for destinations, etc, but not both running at the same time. I have a seperate sim card that I bought just for the car (£15.00 from T Mobile with 3Gb of data allowance in my case).i use this plugged in when I want to use anything online and if I want to use my iPhone for a hands free call in the car, I pop out the T Mobile sim card and connect my iPhone up to the cars Bluetooth to drake the call. The problem comes when you receive an unexpected call when the sim card is in the dashboard. You cant realistically reset the devices while you're driving, so you can't safely/legally take the call. Not much use really, especially if you use the car for business and it's an important call.

Apart from using a different phone to an iPhone and one that allows the use of rSAP, you can get a duplicate sim card from Orange if you use their business service. This allows you to have both your Orange iPhone and a seerate Orange sim card in the dashboard both working on the same number at the same time. Orange are the only UK mobile company that allow this functionality.

I have had many conversations with Audi UK in Milton Keynes and it appears that Audi generally were unaware of this problem in the UK when they brought this system out, as in the rest of the world duplicate sim cards are much easier to obtain. As it seems that only the UK has this problem and that Audi were unaware of this until after they started selling their cars with this feature, they initially said there was nothing that coud be done. Then as more people started to complain (about feeling cheated or mislead, etc) Audi changed their attitude and said they "would look at it". Some 6 months on from first talking to Audi about this, they are still "looking at it". How long does it take to realise the bl**dy obvious. I must say it does feel like they either don't consider this a priority or sonething worth correcting, are hoing that we are al going to go awayvand accept the error, or its such a dfficult thing to correct that thecworlds best engineers don't know how to fix it. Fingers crossed that they'll correct it before our cars are so old that we'll need to change them to get a handsfree car phone.

[Timothy Nathan]

Unfortunately the problem that still exists in that is that I cannot read emails (when I'm stationary of course).

Perhaps Audi should build an email app into the MMI?
Why not connect the iPhone to the car's WiFi, thus allowing it to pick up eMails via its own 3G card, but via a slightly convoluted route?

To introduce myself, by the way, my new A6 is to be delivered next week, and I have a 3GS, so I am as Audishafted as the rest of you, but, to be fair, I did know of this issue before I ordered, and ordered regardless. I have a spare Nokia with rSAP, but it's so horrible compared to the iPhone that I expect to keep using the iPhone and simply swap SIMs when I get in the car.

One reason I want to stick to the iPhone is that I also have an iPad and it all interworks perfectly. The really frustrating thing is that I have a T-Mobile MiFi, which would be ideal, if only it didn't stop the iPhone working.

[gbjk]

Timothy,

Because that's back to front. The car needs to find the phone, not the other way round.
As I advocated, I think that the car should connect to an iphone's hotspot.

However: If you've got a 3GS, you're better placed to try rsapserver than iphone 4 users, where I believe there's more issues to iron out. From what I've heard, though, the MMI is problematic with the iphone rsapserver anyway :o(

Personally, I'm not convinced I care enough about online services to go crazy over this.

[Timothy Nathan]

I don't think that's a problem. You put the SIM in the car and set up the WiFi, then connect the iPhone to the WiFi. This is only about picking up eMail.

[kennyh]

I've another approach. I've also got an iPod Touch, so I'm thinking that I could take the SIM out of the iPhone, stick it in the dash, then I'll have Phone & Online services. I'll then use the Touch as required to pick up email!

BUT, how do I get/send SMS messages in that config? Does the MMI have a SMS app?

[Timothy Nathan]

Maybe I'm being stupid, but why use the iPod?

Once the SIM is out of the iPhone it can still pick up eMails, it effectively becomes an iPod Touch, so why burden yourself with another box?

[kennyh]

If it works like that, then great!

I'll give it a try on Wednesday.

[Timothy Nathan]

It will simply report "No SIM Installed" and then behave like a WiFi iPad or (I assume, I have never really played with one) an iPod Touch. It will definitely pick up eMails on WiFi as that is exactly how I had it configured while I was assessing the Nokia as an alternative.

[kennyh]

Yep, done a quick test and as you say I can then use it for emails etc via wifi. Excellent.

That leaves one problem, that of SMS messages (sending and receiving). What are we going to do about then?

Cheers
Kenny

[Timothy Nathan]

I don't get the car till next week, so cannot be sure but the way I look on this is that this whole issue is only such a low priority in the UK because we do not have duplicate SIMs.

If it were an issue in Germany or USA, Audi would have jumped.

Given that they are not getting floods of complaints in the markets they care about, we must assume that it works there, and that means it works on dual SIMs. If it works on dual SIMs, they must have dealt with the SMS issue.

Or is there a flaw in that argument?

Anyway, I'll report back when I get the car.

[smsabc]

Absolutely correct Timothy. By Audi's own admission (on numerous occasions now from various people at Milton Keynes) they've said they were unaware that the phone/car systems worked differently in the UK to the rest of the world. It was only after it was released here that this became an issue. Up until very recently their sales people were still promoting the fact that both phone and online services worked together at the same time regardless of which phone was being used. In fairness the A7's brochure did make a very vague referrence to the possibilty of this occurring, but it was so vague, all it referred to was that some phones may not be compatable.

When buyers test drove the cars and linked up their iPhones to the cars Bluetooth connection, like me they were assured by Audi sales staff that iPhones worked fine with the car, unaware that this wouldn't be the case when they bought their car and tried to use the full system with a sim card in the dashboard as well. One of the problems was that UK car showrooms didn't usially demonstrate the online services as it meant using a data card that they would have to pay for seperately. I understand that in the USA, the cars came with a free data card from the start and that dual sim cards are also available there, so it wasn't an issue.

After this problem came to light, Audi changed their brochures, highlighting slightly clearer that iphones won't work fully, but it was still very vague and many customers had already bought their cars by then, believing that it was OK. Like me we found that Audi sales staff were STILL selling the system as fully functional with iPhones (that has now changed and they've stopped saying that thankfully).

Yes it does feel that the UK is too small a market for Audi to be bothered about sorting out this issue. However it does feel that many of us have been missold and poorly treated. Perhaps as nobody has tried to push this through some legal action, they haven't pushed it to the top of their agenda yet.

[Timothy Nathan]

Everybody knows that threats of "legal action" are so much tub thumping. Who in their right mind is going to get up in front of a judge and plead that they can't see Google Maps and make a phone call at the same time while driving, and risk legal costs?

No, let's keep this sensible. Audi care about their reputation. They care most about those of us who buy expensive cars with expensive options. Let's face it, the most likely people to buy an A8 in three years time are those who buy a fully loaded A6 today.

So, if we are going to tackle Audi, let it not be with hollow threats of "legal action". Let it be with "hmmm....I see that it works in the BMW 7 Series."

[smsabc]

Been there and done that I'm afraid. Audi tech support said it's a completely different type of system in BMW's so cannot be compared. I agree, it may appear petty, but my point here is that we (certainly in my case and a number of other Audi owners) were sold something that we were told would work in a particular way, paid for it and then discovered that it didn't work that way when the car arrived. This was just as much a surprise to many staff at Audi as it was to us. When we asked for it to be corrected/repaired/refunded, more than six months down the line, nothing appears to have happened. I agree we don't really want to go the legal route, but if the tables were turned and we had bought something from Audi and didn't pay for it because it didn't work, we would probably be in a legal situation instigated Audi straight away. In this case its more a point of misselling/misrepresentation that is the issue here and the consumer losing out and feeling cheated. A real shame as it is otherwise such a fantastic car.

[Timothy Nathan]

I spend a fair bit of my time in a courtroom. I also know many people who are litigation crazy, including a close relative.

My almost universal experience is that almost no-one comes out of court pleased with the overall outcome (especially when you consider how many Civil Judgments are not enforced.). It does happen, of course, but it's rare.

Audi must know that any of us who seriously talks of litigation will either: Talk to a good lawyer who will talk them out of it Talk to a less good lawyer who will just see an opportunity for some fee earning, regardless of outcome.

The best measure of a lawyer's confidence is whether he'll enter a CFA, including Counsel's fees. I'll bet my bottom dollar that you'd never find that for a case such as this.

Nah. One article in a Motoring Section will trump anything the legal system has to offer!

[smsabc]

I couldn't agree more. Any contacts anyone?

[Timothy Nathan]

I don't know how moderation works on this board, but as this issue applies to A6, A7 and A8 (A4 as well? I am not sure), and as (I suspect) there are more A6 contributors now than A7, would it be sensible to move the discussion somewhere more generic?

[sebbie]

I don't get the car till next week, so cannot be sure but the way I look on this is that this whole issue is only such a low priority in the UK because we do not have duplicate SIMs.

If it were an issue in Germany or USA, Audi would have jumped.

Or is there a flaw in that argument?


I don't think this is UK specific. I know none of AT&T, Verizon nor T-Mobile issue duplicate SIMs in US. You can sort of clone SIM card in T-Mobile but it is not legal and exploits issue with their SIM replacement system.

I read few posts stating in US delivered vehicles pre-installed T-Mobile SIM card works alongside BlueTooth connected iPhone. This may be shot in dark but if that's the case are there any settings in green menu, does anyone in this thread already enabled hidden menu with VCDS?

[a8 tech]

removed

[m3-fast]

This MMI issue is starting to annoy me as well now - my last 2 BMW's connected drive worked flawlessly with their inbuilt SIM, yet Audi seem to have cocked up big time here by needing a certain phone connection that one of the worlds most popular phones doesn't support!

Luckily I am an Orange business customer so have subscribed to the 'Single Number' service which allows me a duplicate SIM that has the same number as my mobile. I can choose which one is the primary or secondary SIM and which one I want to ring first.

I have the Iphone as primary device (this is the one that receives the texts, etc) and the car as the secondary device. I have opted for the secondary device to ring first so if the car is running then the phone rings, but if not the Iphone rings instead.

My problem is this, and maybe A8tech can help....

When the SIM is in the dash it works fine as a phone but doesn't have any contacts copied to it - I have tried downloading my phonebook to the car but to do this the car establishes a bluetooth connection, pairs up to my iphone and downloads it's contacts BUT when I disconnect the bluetooth connection and revert back to the dashboard SIM use, all of the downloaded contacts have gone. They only seem to be available when I use the bluetooth connection, and then I lose my data connection.

Can anyone advise how I might be able to get my contacts onto the car SIM?

The iphone doesn't store any contacts on the SIM and there is no option to copy the phone contacts to the SIM card, it is only able to import SIM contacts.

This MMI system should be the dogs danglies, but it appears that AUDI have really made it flawed for iphone owners :(

[Timothy Nathan]

M3,

My suggestion is that, on one occasion, you connect the iPhone using normal Bluetooth, forgetting about rSAP and Online Services for the moment, transfer the contacts, then revert to the SIM swap.

I haven't tried it, of course, because I still don't have the car (they've probably lost it under the snow at Hamburg docks) but that'd be where I would start.

Incidentally, I had to make a snap decision yesterday whether to keep the 3GS or upgrade to the 4S, and I decided to stick, because of Gareth's advice, so I hope he is right!

[bett123]

I have been following this thread with interest for a while now, as I bought an A7 that was delivered back in September. I too, like others in this thread was told by several Audi dealerships before i placed my order, that my iPhone would work with the online services at the same time and was really unhappy to discover when I got the car that it didn't.

For me the online and phone features were an important factor in actually selecting the A7 in the first place and Audi made a really big thing about it in their brochures and advertising. I average 25k -30k per year and these features were a big attraction to me.

I have pursued this matter with Audi and the dealer as I clearly feel I was mislead and missold. Audi UK said they would look into it and get back to me. After 5 months of pursuing this, I have just had a call from them to say that they are holding a meeting to discuss this matter in the next few days, as I'm not the only person to have complained about it. They said that if a decision was made to fix the issue of an iPhone and online functions working together, it would probably not be applied retrospectively and therefore only new cars would have the fully working system, not cars already out there!!! Lets hope this isn't going to be the case. If it is, is seems like Audi will have an awful lot of very unhappy customers on their hands judging by another forums Watch this space I guess.

[Architex_mA8tey]

When the SIM is in the dash it works fine as a phone but doesn't have any contacts copied to it - I have tried downloading my phonebook to the car but to do this the car establishes a bluetooth connection, pairs up to my iphone and downloads it's contacts BUT when I disconnect the bluetooth connection and revert back to the dashboard SIM use, all of the downloaded contacts have gone. They only seem to be available when I use the bluetooth connection, and then I lose my data connection.

Can anyone advise how I might be able to get my contacts onto the car SIM?

The iphone doesn't store any contacts on the SIM and there is no option to copy the phone contacts to the SIM card, it is only able to import SIM contacts.

This MMI system should be the dogs danglies, but it appears that AUDI have really made it flawed for iphone owners :(

I have the same single number package from orange as you and the only way I have found to copy the contacts across is to connect your iphone by bluetooth, copy the contacts to an SD card in the dash, and then switch to your car sim and copy the contacts from the SD card to the car sim. This has worked for me but thrown up another problem which is that the orange sim seems only to be able to accept 99 contacts whereas I have several hundred! So I suggest that you pick and choose each individual contact you use a lot to transfer and limit it to your 99 most regularly used ones!
Hope this helps. . .

[Timothy Nathan]

Can we just be certain whether you mean SD card or SIM in the dash, as, if you mean SD, I don't understand why SIM capacity would be an issue?

[Architex_mA8tey]

The SD card can take any number but you are only using it to copy across from the iPhone sim to the phone sim in the dash
The orange sim card I have on single number only took 99 of my contacts when I copied across to it, so it is pointless copying any more across via the SD card

[m3-fast]

Doh, only just spotted this reply!

I had already tried the method that Timothy suggested, but seeing as I had spare half hour, thought I would sit in the car and try and sort it.

As you said the only way to get the contacts onto the dashboard SIM is to use the import/export facility.

I connected the iphone up via bluetooth - imported SIM contacts to the car of which I had 243.

Then whilst the bluetooth hookup was still active, I exported all the contacts to an SD card in slot 1.

I then disconnected the bluetooth connection to the iphone and inserted the Orange ONENUMBER sim. Aftet that chose to import the contacts from SD card, being careful to select no more than 100.

With technology so far advanced, I can't remember the last time I had such trouble getting stuff to work. It reminds me of the old windows plug'n'pray drivers when you purchased a new printer and spent all night getting it to work,

Audi have really screwed up here and I simply can't believe that cars were not trialled by the UK market, and this design flaw gone un-noticed. To top it all, even though the car has tens of GB of memory available to store hundreds of Audio CD's, the damn thing can only hold 100 telephone numbers. GGGrrrrrrr :(

[Timothy Nathan]

I am probably being stupid, but surely the car stores the contacts somewhere apart from the SIM? If you have basic Bluetooth, without rSAP (phone prep low, or whatever they call it) the car takes a minute or two to copy your contacts, right?

So where is it copying them? I assume to either flash memory or to the HDD or SD depending which you have?

Having copied them there (if it does) why would that list not be available if you are using the dash SIM?

As I say, I am probably being dim, but maybe someone could explain?

[Architex_mA8tey]

Believe it or not I dont think it does let you use either the HDD or SD cards to save contacts that you can then use when you phone
Ive just used the SD card to copy the contacts over and that worked but as already said the limitation in this case is the orange sim and its 99 number capacity
If anyone finds anything more that works then please shout!

[Timothy Nathan]

But my question remains...where do they go, when they are copied on first connection of the phone?

[s555]

I have a 2011 A6, so maybe different. However, on mine, I can set it up so that the address book is read from the iPhone (via Bluetooth) yet the calls are made from the internal phone using the SIM inserted in the dash.

I dont think I did anything special for this to work, just made sure that the address book function was setup to sync via BT, as you would if pairing the phone for calls as well.

So, I can still call my nearest and dearest but do have to contend with their "hello?" answer as they don't recognise the number from my data SIM!

Half way there. Just need the last half so I don't have to keep whipping the data card SIM out every time my iPhone rings!

[Timothy Nathan]

Just need the last half so I don't have to keep whipping the data card SIM out every time my iPhone rings!
Seriously...does that work?

I mean, can you have a T-Mobile SIM in the dash and your Voda iPhone in your pocket, and when the phone rings you can take out the T-Mobile SIM and the car UMTS will pair with the iPhone fast enough to be able to answer the iPhone within a couple of rings?

...and similary, when you want to make a call, you just pop the dash SIM?

If so, that would seem to be a pretty good interim solution.

[bett123]

If your SIM in the dasboard is enabled for calls as well as data (as per a normal sim in a smart phone for example), then you can make and receive calls this way. However its not a very 'joined up' way, especially when compared to other car manufacturers systems.

Unless you are using Orange's 1 number, you will incur two lots of phone bills, one for the car and one for your iphone. You'll have two different phone numbers so callers ringing your car won't get answered when you're not in it unless you remember to divert/cancel diverts every time you get in and out of the car, which not very practical.

I tried this method for a while but found it was too fiddly and unsafe to connect/reconnect a phone when on the move, so had to keep stopping to switch between SIM's to make or receive calls. Also when a call came into my iphone unexpectedly, if a sim was in the dash at that time, I couldn't swap the phone onto Bluetooth in time to take the call handsfree. It's ok to swap SIM's for the occasional calls, but if you use your carvand phone for business, there's nothing like having a proper working hands free system with online access just like most of us expected to get when we bought the car and paid almost 2k extra for it.

Still no word from Audi on this by the way, I was told I'd hear back early this week.

[a8 tech]

removed post

[mcwill]

A8 tech,

Very interesting, I wonder if this production change also allows the use of the bluetooth connected phone as a handsfree phone when a dash sim is in place for data.

[a8 tech]

So if your sw version is k0485_18 this should function if below book your vehicles into your dealers for the update
Also this update allows the cover art and video for iPhone 4 etc using the revised ami lead


Sent from my iPhone using
My fat fingers

[mcwill]

No,

I was wondering if this production change allowed the use of a data only sim in the dash to supply online services, whilst retaining the bluetooth connection to an iphone for calls to be made.

As I understand from the preceeding pages, the problem with attempting to do this at the moment was that inserting a SIM into the dash disconnected the bluetooth phone, but the above change implies that this behaviour has now been altered to permit the connection of a phone whilst using an SIM in the dash as per US spec vehicles.

[MFGF]

So if your sw version is k0485_18 this should function if below book your vehicles into your dealers for the update
Also this update allows the cover art and video for iPhone 4 etc using the revised ami lead


Sent from my iPhone using
My fat fingers

Thanks A8. My car has now arrived at the dealer. Would you object to me sending the content of your post (without identifying the source or you in any way) to ask them to check this update is installed before I take delivery? My car's build week was 04/12 so from your post the revised software should have been installed at the factory, but I would still like to check before the car arrives.

Thanks for the great info!!

Cheers!

MF.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[a8 tech]

Go for it


Sent from my iPhone using
My fat fingers

[a8 tech]

No,

I was wondering if this production change allowed the use of a data only sim in the dash to supply online services, whilst retaining the bluetooth connection to an iphone for calls to be made.

As I understand from the preceeding pages, the problem with attempting to do this at the moment was that inserting a SIM into the dash disconnected the bluetooth phone, but the above change implies that this behaviour has now been altered to permit the connection of a phone whilst using an SIM in the dash as per US spec vehicles.

I have not tested it yet but I would say yes but don't shoot me if I am wrong


Sent from my iPhone using
My fat fingers

[Timothy Nathan]

Oops, I'd already done that without asking. Sorry :Blush2:

[smsabc]

Thanks a8 tech, thats very interesting. I notice at the bottom of the report that it recommends using multi use Sim cards. My local dealer just told me that this means (in the UK) only Orange 1 number dual sim cards can do this. Any other non dual (non multi use) sim won't allow a Bluetooth hone connection and simultaneous use of the dashboard sim! Dammit, I thought we had it fixed there. They told me that they are aware that Audi are 'looking at this' once again, so it seems something is definately brewing in the Pipeline and an announcement should be made soon.

[soofsayer]

Hello All,

Oh dear!

I've got myself a Galaxy Nexus (latest one, whatever that is).

Connecting it to the A7 by bluetooth I only get the handsfree option, which wont let me use the phone for data, which was kinda the whole point.

From what I can gather the phone is rSAP so what on earth am I missing? Has anyone had this problem with this phone, or is it the Audi gremlins?

[Timothy Nathan]

Most phones need to have rSAP enabled in Settings. In the Nokia it resides with Bluetooth settings. Can't help on Android, sorry.

[soofsayer]

Thanks Tim,

I have an option in bluetooth to share the phone's internet connection, which is turned on. Hence why I am still stumped!

[a8 tech]

http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?129657-LOOK-audi-release-phone-online-updates-via-sd-card-2012-gt-mmi-radio-plus-concert-radio

[Timothy Nathan]

soofsayer,

Does this (http://forum.android-rsap.com/viewforum.php?f=34) help?

[soofsayer]

Hi,

I spent most of last night rooting my phone (edit - thats sounds wrong!) and installing the bluetooth app from rsap-android.com.

The car did then see the phone with the 'carphone' option but would not bond to it. Only in 'handsfree' profile.

I have tried the software update by putting the files on an SD card but the car keeps giving me an error 'Medium is not ready at present time', so thats not working either. The sd card is formatted as fat32 and has no other files on it other than the update files from audi.

Argh!

[soofsayer]

Well I have found the problem with the SD card reading issue, I think. From another forum it seems that the MMI will only read SD cards, and not SDHC cards. The one I have tried using is a SDHC card, so I will go out and try and find an SD card.

Bit weird as SD cards are getting to be quite rare as they have now been superceeded by SDHC.

Update to follow in due course.

[soofsayer]

Success !!!!

I have got the Galaxy Nexus to connect using the correct profile to the A7.

I did not use the software update from Audi to achieve this.

As the Galaxy Nexus is a popular phone, and like me, you have better things to do with your time than figure it all out, here is how to do it:

- 'Root' the phone - this is basically the same idea as jailbreaking an iphone. I found the best and easiest way to achieve this was by going to:

http://theunlockr.com/2012/01/26/how-to-root-the-samsung-galaxy-nexus-one-click-method-lte-and-gsm-versions/

Download the drivers and the toolkit, follow the instructions to the letter. BTW, when doing a backup the software backs up all the wireless settings and application settings (and apps) but does not backup email account settings, so make a note of these if you dont know them by heart.

After backing up and 'rooting' the phone you can then install the rSAP application from the androd market. Install the rSAP installation drivers (download the app for free) and then the rSAP free eval version. More info at rsap-android.com

Make sure that the car has had the previous bluetooth connections to the phone deleted ( Phone - Settings - Bonded Devices - Delete Device).

Make sure that on the phone in Settings - Bluetooth that the car is not already paired, if so, unpair it.

Then start the rSAP app on the phone, it should not show any red text, just bluetooth not connected.

On the car search for a new bluetooth device and when it picks up the Nexus it should offer Carphone as a profile option, choose it! Not Handsfree. If you can only see Handsfree then the car will not use the phone for tethering. I found this a couple of times so rebooted my phone and restarted the rSAP app and it found the correct profile.

If the connection is successful the 2G/3G signal should show up on the MMI and google earth nav should now update etc.

Then buy the full version of the rSAP app (now you know it works).

I found it a bit fiddly and am still experimenting with what does and does not work, but the rSAP app does do the job, it just takes a while to get there.

[smsabc]

Just heard from Audi Tech Support today. They confirmed that after a meeting at Audi, no update would be made available to make the Bluetooth/Online functions work with an iPhone. They could only suggest that I either get a phone other than an iPhone that will allow rSAP usage or not use the dashboard SIM at the same time as using the iPhone via Bluetooth for hands free calls. So there we have it, Audi either don't care about this issue enough or can't fix something that clearly doesn't work the way that most of their customers believed it would. Not sure where we go from here but it seems like there will be a lot of very disappointed Audi customers.

[TopherGeorge]

I posted a message to audiUk on twitter commenting on this lack of functionality, and guess what!? Yep they confirmed what you just said, no iphone support. It seems stupid why cant you connect to your phone via the bluetooth to just make phone calls and then use the in dash sim to access a data plan! This seems like a very simple fix, give us the option of selecting the Sim as a Data Sim or a Phone/Data sim. This way you could still use your phone to make calls.

[Timothy Nathan]

GBJK and I have set aside some time on March 7th to see if we can come up with a solution for the iPhone 3GS. If that works, we can look to extending it to the 4 and 4S.

If we are successful, I will write some step by step instructions on here.

Watch this space.

[smsabc]

I posted a message to audiUk on twitter commenting on this lack of functionality, and guess what!? Yep they confirmed what you just said, no iphone support. It seems stupid why cant you connect to your phone via the bluetooth to just make phone calls and then use the in dash sim to access a data plan! This seems like a very simple fix, give us the option of selecting the Sim as a Data Sim or a Phone/Data sim. This way you could still use your phone to make calls.

Absolutely. You get it, we ALL get it - why don't Audi? Is it because they're not actually experiencing the unuser friendly system in Germany in the way that we are in the UK? Perhaps they need to listen to their UK staff and customers more who all agree it's not right at the moment.

[Timothy Nathan]

I picked up my new A6 today, and the salesmen were saying that they had a meeting with Audi about this last week and the word was put out that it's all Apple's fault.

I mentioned that BMW seem to be able to cope and they said that they had fed that thought back to Audi.

Their opinion was that if the pressure is kept up, Audi will come up with a fix eventually, but I think that may be the triumph of hope over experience.

[smsabc]

Congratulations on your new car. I fear that you are correct about triumph over hope though, as it was only a few months ago that Audi salesmen and Audi staff were saying that you could use phones AND online services together. Since then there's been a huge amount of condemnation and customer complaints and all that has happened is that theyve had a meeting and agreed to do nothing. I guess we are foreved into finding a software hack for this.

[a8 tech]

had enough

Sent from my iPhone using
My fat fingers

[smsabc]

Thanks A8, I appreciate your comments, however if only it was that easy. At evenings and weekends I do use a nokia and it connects fine, however in my case and I know it's the same for many many others, I use the car and iPhone for business use and as the iphone is standard company wide issue with over 200+ staff, other phones are not on the agenda (for many reasons). What you said about the car NEVER being able to work with iPhones is the first time anyone has ever said that for definate. I assume you work for Audi so are aware of this, but over the last 6 months Audi have strung us all along saying that there MAY be a fix in the future that will sort this. Perhaps if they put it like you did, (or their sales staff didnt misinform us originally) we wouldnt have been in this waiting game or in this forum in the first place. Anyone want to buy a used A7 1 careful owner 15k miles. ;-) .

[Timothy Nathan]

One can denigrate the iPhone with as much religious zeal as one likes, but you cannot fight the market. It remains the most bought and most sought after phone, knocking all the others into a cocked hat.

I do have an rSAP phone, a Nokia N Series, on my shelf, and I could use it in the car, but it's a rubbish phone with a rubbish user interface and rubbish connection to Outlook Exchange.

My iPhone suits me perfectly, especially its integration with other systems.

It seems odd that Audi insist that to fit into their world I have to use a rubbish inferior product against my will.

[a8 tech]

I do not represent Audi in anyway and my comments are based on the operation of the vehicle system and current compatibility for working sim cards and phones
Instead of leading you on its just better to give facts to date and yes Audi may release a fix but reading through this thread it appears the answers have already been made clear
I again advise you use the links posted by myself to check compatibility of your phone prior to purchase of a new vehicle
The dual sim is a let down however if the network providers arnt willing to play ball then how can a manufacturer force them
With multiple options for approved handsets then the choice is yours
I hope this brings some common sense to this thread and a reality check
The information is available to all on the Audi phone list

hands free
Bluetooth can be bonded via hfp
Additional sim card reader transfers phone book etc with online services
but you must have data option

Car phone
Rsap connects via umts and again sim must be data option



Sent from my iPhone using
My fat fingers

[Timothy Nathan]

Well, a8 tech, that is certainly an interesting attitude to take, and, while I know that you don't represent Audi UK, you clearly represent their position, which is that their customers are wrong, stupid or both, and should **** off and buy a different car.

Seems a very weird stance for an organisation which bends over backwards to assure us that they lead through technology, and study the needs of their customers every step of the way.

I'll hold out hope that we can get the rSAP jailbreak working, at least on the 3 and hopefully on the 4. If that fails, I'll have to get an SDHC card and see how that can help, but, as things stand, I have unpalatable decisions to take.

I have to accept one of:

Using an inferior phone
Not having a contact list (so having to dial a number from memory, and not being able to use voice calling.)
Not using any of the advanced data tools. I don't really care about Google Maps, but the WiFi would be splendid, if it didn't wreck my ability to use the phone.

...and all because Audi are arrogant enough to think that they know better than me (and most other people in the country) what phone I should use.

[a8 tech]

Its my opinion and nothing more.

[Timothy Nathan]

I have done the following:
Removed the SIM from my iPhone and put it into the dash. I have left my iPhone on, but without its SIM. Allowed the car to recognise that it is now a phone (a few seconds). Gone to the directory on that phone. It has asked me if I want to download a directory from a Bluetooth phone, I have said yes. It has found the iPhone, and, after a few minutes, has enabled the use of the entire directory.

The only cloud on the horizon is that item 4 is somewhat flaky. It failed once and worked once. I am sorry that I do not have time to work out the nature of the flakiness just at the moment, I have been called in to supper, but will report back.

I also suspect that you will only be able to pair with the car stationary.

For all of this to work, you need the software update a8 tech told us about above. This is standard on cars built recently, they say, but there are instructions above as to how to get it on older cars.

Thus, I suggest that there are two usage scenarios:

On short journeys, use Bluetooth and iPhone, don't bother with data services.
On long journeys, invest the time in extracting the SIM and linking the Bluetooth to the now SIM-less iPhone before you set off. Connect the SIM-less iPhone to the car's WiFi (this will happen automatically after the first time) to get eMails. There is (to answer an earlier poster's question, an SMS client in the MMI. You now have everything you want - phone with directory, Google Maps, WiFi, eMail and SMS.

I think that our prayers are very nearly answered. If we can get rSAP working on the iPhone next week, so much the better.

[aurora7]

Hi Timothy,

Did you get the microsim into the dash, or have you got an older iPhone with a normal sized sim??

[Timothy Nathan]

Did you get the microsim into the dash, or have you got an older iPhone with a normal sized sim??
The latter, but converter trays are easily and cheaply (or freely) available for the former.

[Timothy Nathan]

I have done a little more investigation. (Do tell me if I am just talking to myself here.)

I have, several hours later, got back in the car, moved the SIM from the iPhone to the car. Fairly quickly (let's say 20 seconds) all my contacts appeared in the car's directory, without my having to re-pair.

The one thing I haven't tried, but will do in the fullness of time, is to set off and move the SIM at the first traffic lights (part of the Audi Nanny State is not to let you pair a Bluetooth phone when moving, so it may also apply to this.)

I really think that we have a full solution.

If only Audi UK were to publish this workaround, rather than denying that there is a problem or saying that they will not do anything about it, I think that we would all feel better about them.

[Timothy Nathan]

OK, the final chapter in this monologue. I do hope others are finding this useful and I am not just wasting my time.

This morning I did the following:

Got into the car with my iPhone in my pocket and drove off.
Established that the phone was working fine as a bluetooth phone and that I could see the directory. The WiFi and Google (obviously) didn't work.
While driving (don't try this at home folks, but I did it on very quiet roads in the name of science) I removed the SIM from the iPhone and put it in the SIM slot. I almost immediately got a message asking if I wanted to start data services, I replied yes. After about 30 secs or a minute I checked that I had a directory. All was fine.

So, in my opinion, we have a solution which will work fine for all models of iPhone without jailbreaking. If jailbreaking and rSAP works (I'll let you know in a few days) then it will be even more convenient, but I do believe that we have a perfectly workable solution even without that.

There is one rather odd cloud on the horizon, though, and I saw something similar in my loaner old technology A6.

It seems like, each time I connect the iPhone via Bluetooth a number of phantom empty entries appear at the top of the address book. These entries cannot be deleted from the car (it says to delete them from the phone) and do not exist on the phone.

I haven't counted, but my guess is that each time you connect you get about 5 more blank entries. I am up to about 30. These empty entries appear in the MMI but not in the DIS.

I assume that this is fixed by occasionally clearing out the whole directory, but it is a bit irritating and does demonstrate some shoddy programming which must have been there a long time if it was in the old A6 as well.

To summarise:

Get Audi to update your software as outlined by a8 tech above.
Take the SIM out of the running iPhone and (using an adaptor if necessary) plug it into the car.
Accept the cars offer to read the address book from a Bluetooth phone and connect to the iPhone to do so.
Create a WiFi on the car.
Connect the iPhone to the WiFi.


OK, that's me done.

[smsabc]

Thank you, thank you, thank you Timothy. First and foremost for all of your work on this and then for your refusal to accept defeat in the face of all non iphone advocates. I'm going to try this (not sure if I'll do it while driving) and report back on it. Next step is for you to find out how to clone sim cards I guess ;) And yes there are lots of us that are following this or will benefit from it.

[kennyh]

The link for the update that A8 Tech provided (earlier in this thread) is now dead.

Any ideas?

[Timothy Nathan]

I have an idea, I am afraid.

I asked my Audi dealer to ensure that the software was installed on my car. They obviously discussed this with Audi UK, because they had an email from them asking where the information had come from.

I told them, not believing it to be a state secret, and the next we hear is a8 tech deleting some of his posts.

I am not a conspiracy theorist, I actually believe that Princess Di died in an accidental car crash, but all the signs here are that Audi really don't want information about the software fix to be seen by the public, and have put pressure on a8 tech to take it down.

If that is the case, it's a disgrace. Audi are being told that their customers have a serious disgruntlement, they have a 90% solution and yet try to suppress it. What does that tell us?

Anyway, here is the software information:


Copyright material removed as requested

If Audi UK don't want this information posted, they know how to contact me. I use my real name as I do on all online communications, as I will always stand behind what I write.

[a8 tech]

My intention was simply to assist as I have with numerous issues and not to inflame your concern.Having helped numerous members with vehicle related problems over the years and the now turn left mmi 3g issue being the biggest I find myself now in a position were no longer can I add my input due to your actions.

I do not represent Audi in any way and my help and comments are my own due to my nature I always look at threads were I think a little help may benefit the members.

No one has contacted me

I have asked for the information to be removed and advise members with this issue to use there dealers to for a possible solution

Any comments I have made regarding the operation and compatibly to integrate Iphone and dual sim are based on information learnt and available on the audi owners area phone lists

Please accept my apology to members following the thread and I hope you find a suitable solution for this issue

Regards A8

[stuart]

a8tech has been, and is a valuable asset to this site and it's Members, but anything that is posted that could effect either him personally i.e work related and/or put this site at risk will be removed... ;)

Stuart

[Timothy Nathan]

I have read a lot of a8 tech's postings and he is indeed a very valuable resource, I would be the last person to want to put him off being so.

While I apologise if I have caused him any difficulty, I think that rereading the above posts will reveal that the underlying problem is that a8 tech has been putting Audi UK's position without wanting to be seen to represent them, and then taking umbrage at the suggestion that his views were representative of theirs. I do think that that is a subtle language distinction which he has misunderstood. You can say that someone is representative of a group (ie reflects their values) without saying that they represent them (ie speaks for them.)

a8 tech has been quite outspoken about people having to choose between Audis and iPhones, and it is that which seemed odd to me.

But I do appreciate all his efforts on our behalf.

[Timothy Nathan]

There may be another cloud on the horizon.

It is just a suspicion at the moment, I don't have time at the moment to check it out in detail, but it seems to me that your navigation favourites are dependent on your phone connection, so that if you sometimes use Bluetooth and you sometimes put the SIM in the dash, you will have to manage two separate sets of favourites.

Does anyone else have time to check this out?

[kennyh]

There may be another cloud on the horizon.

It is just a suspicion at the moment, I don't have time at the moment to check it out in detail, but it seems to me that your navigation favourites are dependent on your phone connection, so that if you sometimes use Bluetooth and you sometimes put the SIM in the dash, you will have to manage two separate sets of favourites.

Does anyone else have time to check this out?

That's what I've experienced as well.

The favs are linked to the phone that's connected (and how it is connected - bluetooth or SIM in the dash). I suppose that allows different drivers to have different favourites.

Still, it confused me when it looked like my favs had disappeared.

Cheers
Kenny

[Timothy Nathan]

Well, if that's how it's supposed to work, my current theory is that the method I am proposing, of using the SIM in the car, but the SIMless phone for phone directory, deletes the favourites every time you get out of the car.

That would be a bugger if true.

[kennyh]

I could be wrong, but that's what I found so far.

Wouldn't it be nice to have the iPhone integration work as we all would have hoped - Ah, wishful thinking again.

Still, and least we get to opportunity to get <removed> off with the phone thing while driving a nice car!

[smsabc]

I tried out the above and concur that I'm getting the same results. seemed like a good idea but nothing will beat it working as we believed it should.

I can't help but think that this thread has been almost killed off, even though it seems to be one of the longest running most problematical issues currently being experienced by Audi users on this site. This makes this thread/website a vital resource.

Audi insist that the iPhone/MMI/online incompatibility isn't a big enough isuue as they dont have many customers telling them that it is. Anyone reading this please express your dissatisfaction on the iPhone MMI issue by calling Audi Customer Services UK on : 0800 699 888. The more people do this, the more likely they are able to listen and respond. The last thing that Audi want is unhappy customers. I believe they do listen but obviously can't respond to occasional feedback. Only when customers let them know in droves, they will be able to feed it back to Germany for a proper solution.

When you wish upon a star, makes no difference who you are, when you drive an Audi car your dreams don't (always) come true. - Or can they?

[Timothy Nathan]

I have done that. The call desk guy just said he'll pass it on, but had no resolution.

Incidentally, I heard yesterday that two of my friends who had been waiting to see my A6 before deciding how to replace their Merc/Rover have both decided to go with BMW5s, with the iPhone issue (not really the issue, but Audi's attitude to it) being one of a couple of deciding factors. Neither have actually seen the car, they have just been put off.

[gbjk]

My dealer tells me audi *is* working on this problem with apple, by the way.

I've been thinking more about this, and I think it just sucks all round:

Audi came up with an excellent solution in RSAP, because it's far better than using handsfree:
- Better signal
- Internet integration
- Far less use of phone battery

Apple's stance is that rsap isn't a stable profile, and the services using it are often flaky.
They'd prefer to not have a facility than have a poorly implemented one.
That's part of what makes me think that iphone's are so usable.

So both side's arguments make sense.

BMW got round this using an internal dedicated SIM, and keeping the entire phone usage separate. As I understand it, though, this means unboosted signal.

Oh well. I'll just try rsap-server, Or switch to samsung galaxy s ii.

G

[BigAid]

Called and complained - I applaud your efforts in investigating & have been following the thread since the start after a rude awakening that Apple and Audi don't play well together technically.

The main issue is all about money.

RSAP is Nokia's invention so other manufacturers have to pay to licence it. So as you can see there is little to no incentive for Apple to licence this technology. It's also a mainly a European thing given VW Groups main markets so doesn't affect the majority of Apple's customers. Whilst Audi and VW group is big, there are a much larger number of Apple customers so we're not statistically significant to them.

The issue then is with the fact that Audi would have to get Apple to adapt their device & pay licensing to Nokia - chances of that happening are I think you'd agree zero.

So then what can Audi/VW do within the limitations of the existing hardware with out doing a hardware recall - I doubt there is any chance of that given they have to balance whatever solution they provide against what it would cost to do across all the Audi models using MMI3G+........or possibly across all VW brands using the similar systems.

I was hoping the best solution would be a data sim active and a bluetooth handsfree paring to a separate mobile however with a pessmistic hat on I suspect the control modules aren't capable of this.

I've currently given up and will probably look at getting an old nokia for work or hacking the HTC from work. Personal iPhone OS staying. I personally can't be bothered removing my mobile sim each time I get in the car - I'll just end up not using the online services / using a data only sim intermitently.

[Timothy Nathan]

Bear in mind that this isn't just about data services. It is also about getting a better signal on a phone call.

The iPhone is a pretty good computer terminal, but it's a pretty poor telephone. It always loses signal before others' Nokias and Samsungs on the same network (forget about signal strength meters, they cannot be compared across phones, really.)

The situation is made worse by the AMI being inside a box, in the middle of the car at low level. If I want my iPhone to work in a car, the best places are either my top pocket or on the dash. So, if I want to use the iPhone aerial and UMTS hardware, I may have to compromise on the AMI.

Having a dedicated UMTS and external aerial in the car is a good solution just for calls, and I wouldn't want to lose that.

gbjk and I had to postpone our meeting on Wednesday and are now going to meet a week today. I do hope that we can then get jailbroken rSAP working then.

Otherwise, it's moving that SIM around or nothing. :(

[mcwill]

Sorry if I missed it somewhere in the depths of this thread, but I believe US spec A7s are supplied with a dedicated data SIM (6 month free trial) to support the online services. In addition, standard bluetooth handsfree phones can also be used with the car.

In the UK, the above isn't possible, the built in SIM handles calls as well as data so bluetooth handfree profile is disabled when a SIM is plugged into the dash.

I'm not asking Apple to license rSAP, nor am I asking Audi to develop a special iphone connection. I'd just like them to make available to us in the UK, a feature already available to US drivers of the A7.

[Timothy Nathan]

mcwill,

If they did that, you would lose the ability to benefit from the external aerial for calls. It's a no-win without rSAP. With rSAP everything should be perfect.

[gbjk]

Yeah, but more options are good, and I'd probably take the "no external aerial" solution over any of the others.

I wonder if this is under the service menu.

Timothy, can you go through the hidden service menu on your new car and see if this is configurable?

[Timothy Nathan]

I don't even know what that means! Can we play on Friday? Just don't wreck my car!

[mcwill]

I've only just ordered my car, but when I take delivery I will have to choose whether to use my iphone or use the online services. Currently I can't choose both.

I'm just pointing out that Audi already has a viable solution that would allow iphone users (and those with phones that do not support rSAP) to use the online services built into the car.

iphones have never been able to use external aerials so the US solution would see me no worse off, than I am in my existing car using the iphone via bluetooth.

This was interesting though in Autocar's news piece on the new A3...



Optionally available will be Audi Phone Box, which utilises contactless
technology to improve phone connectivity. In the future, Audi hopes to
introduce contactless charging.


Maybe Audi is starting to recognise that rSAP isn't the only solution?

[BigAid]

I've only just ordered my car, but when I take delivery I will have to choose whether to use my iphone or use the online services. Currently I can't choose both.

I'm just pointing out that Audi already has a viable solution that would allow iphone users (and those with phones that do not support rSAP) to use the online services built into the car.

iphones have never been able to use external aerials so the US solution would see me no worse off, than I am in my existing car using the iphone via bluetooth.

This was interesting though in Autocar's news piece on the new A3...



Maybe Audi is starting to recognise that rSAP isn't the only solution?

If I'm honest I'd more than settle for HFP Bluetooth to iPhone and Data sim card for on-line services....I hadn't realised this was an option in the US.................RSAP and external aerial is a nice idea but will never happen officially in my opinion with Apple / never be an option on the latest iPhone via jail breaking and I'm more likely to have a newer phone than car now I've bought the car.


so they do......
http://www.audiusa.com/us/brand/en/owners/audi_connect.html

now I really want it as its possible!

[dgarside]

Got to agree I'd happily compromise.... Let hope :-)

[bett123]

Me too. That makes a lot of sense to me, HOW do we persuade the main men in Germany to get it sorted though!?

[gbjk]

Progress update from Timothy and I:

I jailbroke an iphone 4 and an iphone 3GS, and installed rsap-server on both.

The iphone 4 worked out of the box.
The phone's signal is turned off, and the car gets to make it's own connection. Once it's done so, calls and online services work fine.
The only place where there's an issue is contacts.
I've just this second realised why: The contacts aren't *on* the SIM, I don't think, and the car is only using RSAP.
That's not a massive issue. It's easy to switch to standard bluetooth to transfer contacts.
DIDN'T think to test streaming music from the phone, but I intend to use AMI mostly anyway.

As for the 3GS: Whilst we could get it working (albeit haltingly), and the online services worked,
we get disconnected from the phone, and it seems to not want to reconnect.
I currently believe this is an issue with btstack, because the btstack icon disappears.

This isn't exhaustive, but it does show immense promise for iphone 4 users.

Timothy will attempt this same process on a spare iphone 4S he has, and see how it goes with the A5 system (A5 the apple processor, not A5 the audi car).

Note: We're stuck with iOS 5.0.1 right now, because 5.1 isn't jailbroken untethered yet.


Gareth

[bett123]

Well done guys. As an iPhone 4s user, I'm watching this with great interest.

[Timothy Nathan]

On the way home from gbjk, I switched off the Auto-Lock, which had been on 1 Minute (about the time it had taken to fail on each occasion), so it is now on "Never".

The phone then worked perfectly on rSAP for the rest of the (30 min) journey.

I cannot say that the two are related, but that is my current guess.

The BTStack on the 3GS very difficult to handle, as it locks up when you change mode, so I haven't tried the phone book download yet, but when I get a moment I will and report back.

This is looking hopeful.

Many thanks to Gareth, who has done all the hard work.

[Timothy Nathan]

I have put step by step instructions on the A6 Forum (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?130718-Instructions-for-Getting-iPhone-Working-with-High-Telephone-and-data-Services&p=705797#post705797).

[jakerade]

I have to commend you guys on your persistence.

I had a new A6 loan car with all the gear last summer and i could see no way this was ever going to work properly with a normal phone (eg iphone or similar), told my dealer accordingly and he agreed!

I messed around with the fabled Audi rsap adapter a couple of years ago with Windows Mobile and it was nothing but a pain in the **** causing the phone to crash when it switched modes, defaulting to HF mode only etc etc. Audi said they would release an update for it but I believe it is still on version 1.0....

I really dont know why Audi continues to mess around with RSAP when its a relatively dead technology which very few of the phone manufacturers support. Even the new Nokia Lumia does not support RSAP

http://www.nokia.com/gb-en/support/troubleshooting/?action=singleFAQ&caseid=FA138180_en_US

What they should have put in the arm rest was some sort of re-radiating pad for a signal and a USB point you could charge your phone from and allowed the car to use data services over bluetooth (like you can with a laptop...)

I connected my HTC Android phone (no RSAP) to a 3 series Beemer with Pro Nav the other day and all the google search stuff just worked out of the box.


Any way good work and keep up the pressure

[Timothy Nathan]

You may not be aware that we have now also discovered that, even if the services work on an rSAP Nokia, or with the SIM plugged directly into the dash, they do not work on the Vodafone network!

It is even worse than you think!

[jakerade]

According to http://www.android-rsap.com/, Samsung have removed RSAP from the version 4 release of their firmware and you need to use the Android RSAP program instead (which requires rooting the phone......)

Can't confirm or deny but thought it was worth mentioning before anyone rushes out to buy one!

[jakerade]

You may not be aware that we have now also discovered that, even if the services work on an rSAP Nokia, or with the SIM plugged directly into the dash, they do not work on the Vodafone network!

It is even worse than you think!

Thats a bit of a clanger - wonder if the sim is locked to a vodafone handset - had something similar with T-Mobile before but worked with the sim from a 3G card (eg 3G would only work in a mobile handset and not a 3G card)

[kennyh]

Well I've jail broken my iPhone 4, configured rSAP and it appears to work fine, apart from the contact list integration with the iPhone that is.

My phone is on Vodafone and the Google integration works, the Online Services (weather, news, traffic, online destinations etc) work most of the time, if a little slow.

To be honest, the weather & news function is pretty poor. If you want that just use the iPhone to search via your favourite app, using the wifi the car delivers.

So a partial solution, everything bar the iPhone internal contact list.

Interestingly, in my experience, the Bluetooth Stack used for rSAP appears to be less power hungry that the iPhone standard stack, meaning your phone last longer before recharge. A little bonus there.

[gbjk]

Timothy,

Damnit - that would be quite a set back.

jakerade,

rSAP is a very good solution in many ways, but I agree that support for it is a pita.

The connection time is the biggest issue for me. I generally find that all the audi systems take *way* too long to become available.
In the lexus, nothing was ever "not available". In the Audi, even the reversing camera takes about 1 second to display! Sometimes radio isn't available for the first 4 seconds, too.
So because of that, I'm currently trying to work out how to have a sim in the car, and automatically forward/disable calls on the iphone when it sees the car's wifi.

It's going to require hacking at some app source, which is a pita.

[jakerade]

I used to use a vodafone multi sim when i had a nokia car phone in my previous two cars (Nokia 616 Rsap kit) as i got fed up with rsap crashing my mobile. Multi sim was really good as you could press a command on your mobile to switch to the car kit and still recieve emails on your mobile and make calls if you wanted. The only downside was that it didnt support GPRS/3G in those days so I switched to having two sims on our business contract. I think it was something like an extra £5/month

[Timothy Nathan]

My phone is on Vodafone and the Google integration works.
Could you confirm, for sure, that Google StreetView works on Vodafone, please?

[kennyh]

Never seen Streetview (in the car). Where is it accessed from?

[Timothy Nathan]

Never seen Streetview (in the car). Where is it accessed from?

If you have a moment please look here (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?131248-Google-street-view).

[s555]

I have raised this issue with Audi UK and mine is going to the local dealer tomorrow for TWO DAYS to be "investigated". To be fair, they are going to look at a few other MMI related gremlins at the same time, but mostly this very issue: Data SIM in slot, cannot bluetooth connect my mobile.

Hardly a surprise that Audi aren't fixing the problem though - if they treat each case as if they have never heard of the problem before, they clearly aren't able to spot trends in their complaints system.

When I next speak to Audi, I'll see if I can get some kind of internal reference number for this fault and will post it here for you all to use when complaining! We may then get enough linked complaints logged for them to consider doing something about it? Slim chance, but worth trying.

[Timothy Nathan]

The problem is so widespread that Audi cannot not be aware of it at the highest level.

Among the owners of Audis with the high end nav systems, what proportion do we think have iPhones? My guess is about 40%, but I may be exaggerating; I would accept as low as 25%, but cannot imagine that it is much less.

That means that around a third of Audi's top end, high value, quality customer base is p*ssed off with them.

Add to that that almost certainly the same proportion of senior Audi UK personnel have both a posh Audi and an iPhone. My guess is that at least a third of the Board of Audi UK are in this position, as well as a third of the Boards of every dealership in the country.

They cannot possible be unaware.

My guess is that the problem is only in the UK, because the US have a software fix allowing the use of the dash SIM and the hands-free Bluetooth, and German service providers offer dual SIM.

I would further guess that Audi UK are begging Ingolstadt for a fix, because they know that they are likely to haemorrhage their most valued customers, who are so cross, and that Ingolstadt have put it on a long list of things to think about, probably bumped down the list on a quarter by quarter basis because more important faults, which affect Germany and the USA, are given priority.

My final guess is that Audi UK are saying nothing, and are in denial, because they have nothing helpful to say.

Essentially, we don't matter much to Ingolstadt.

[jakerade]

i would suggest someone emails the top man at Audi UK and see what response you get. I wouldnt bother with customer services as they will just send you back to the dealer

http://www.audi.co.uk/about-audi/latest-news/audi-uk-confirms-appointment-of-new-director.html

[jakerade]

the format the use is firstname.surname@company.co.uk ..............

[onemanparty]

I would check out the Audi Channel on you tube - Audi uk talk about phones and MMI high on there

[Timothy Nathan]

I would check out the Audi Channel on you tube - Audi uk talk about phones and MMI high on there

Can we have a link?

[onemanparty]

Can we have a link?
Try this


I would check this out Audi Channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lqn4b6dGj_A & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyZHb...feature=relmfu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyZHby06dj4&feature=relmfu)

[Timothy Nathan]

Onemanparty,

That's very basic owner's manual stuff. I think that if it were that easy, we would not have a 22 page thread.

The issue which is exercising us, is that it seems that only Nokia phones really support rSAP properly, and Audi is relying on 15 year old technology, such that the most popular modern phones, iPhones, don't work with data at all and others, such as the Samsungs, are very flaky. Furthermore, even with a Nokia, using the Vodafone service causes crashes, and AudiConnect is completely useless.

A couple of self-satisfied videos changes nothing.

[onemanparty]

Onemanparty,

That's very basic owner's manual stuff. I think that if it were that easy, we would not have a 22 page thread.

The issue which is exercising us, is that it seems that only Nokia phones really support rSAP properly, and Audi is relying on 15 year old technology, such that the most popular modern phones, iPhones, don't work with data at all and others, such as the Samsungs, are very flaky. Furthermore, even with a Nokia, using the Vodafone service causes crashes, and AudiConnect is completely useless.

A couple of self-satisfied videos changes nothing.

It's the phone not the car that what you are saying. Sorry for your issue but the sales man should have informed you. Its worked with my blackberry in my bosses A7 but I'm not on BES and I'm on vodafone. Problem with this is car tech renewal is not as quick as mobile I.e. mobiles are updated every 6 months cars every 6 years+.

[Timothy Nathan]

omp,

It would probably be helpful if you were to read this thread from the start, as you are rehearsing discussion points which have been raised a number of times before.

Essentially, the situation is that Audi's very arrogant position is that despite the fact that the phone buying public have voted with their feet and bought iPhones, HTCs and Samsungs, Audi knows better and believes that we should change our phones to suit them.

Their idea of Vorsprung durch Technik is the laughable notion that we should have to buy outdated phones from failing companies (who believes that either Nokia or Blackberry will be still with us in three years' time?)

I love my car, and I would be out there telling my friends, except that I keep having to add the caveat that the way it handles phone and data is cr ap, and that if people want it done properly they have to look to BMW.

And while I am telling my friends that, Audi are reducing their prices and discounting like mad to shift cars.

Shurely shome mishtake?

Just to give an example, here is a posting (mainly directed at me) on a private pilots' forum read by the majority of the thousands of private pilots in this country.


The whole thing is a complete farce. Audi really should be ashamed of themselves - this rubbish has been going on for the best part of two years now and they still haven't got their act together.

Personally, I'd just hook your iPhone up via Bluetooth, forget about the 'internet' services (you're probably already bored with them), and get on with your life.

You have invested more time and energy on this than is healthy!

Now, when you consider that private pilots tend to be
Pretty wealthy
Interested in transport, technology and gizmos


...and that I am poisoning their minds about Audi with this relatively small matter, you begin to see the overall impact that this issue is having (it's not just pilots, it's golf club bars, boardroom tables, magistrates benches and goodness knows where else where the kind of people who might buy a high end Audi are being warned off.)

What is really frustrating is that we know that there is a software solution, because it is available in the USA, but we posh car buyers in the UK are so despised that Audi can't even be bothered to port that solution over.

Instead they just tell us we are stupid for having decent phones, and if we had any sense we would have rubbish ones.

Actually, they don't even tell us that. They tell us nothing and try to fob us off. I was promised an answer on two data issues "in a couple of days" by Epsom Audi several weeks ago.

[s555]

So far, I have got nowhere with this. Much like the rest of you!

Audi are claiming it is not a fault, as it is designed to do this. In much the same way as any car manufacturer claims what most would call a fault "as designed" until they are forced in to a recall, no doubt.

Sorry sir, yes, I know all the paint has fallen off and the engine has dropped out, but they all do that. That's how they are designed, sir. I've got another one in the showroom that does that. Yes, I can see why you may find it annoying....

Audi keep asking me what they can do to make me happy. I don't know what they are offering, but a box of biscuits and a bottle of wine isn't going to cut it. I just want the car to work in a way that the marketing suggests.

I have been looking in to the "official" solution - dual SIMs. Nobody does them anymore, not legally.
You may think you can get some guy in a corner shop to clone your SIM: Apparently not, it's too difficult now. And in any case, he is probably on the edge of breaking the law if he does manage it. (Cloning a mobile phone is certainly illegal).

Audi UK have told me that they have thousands of customers (obviously) and clearly not very many of them are complaining about this issue, or they would have fixed it - an interesting statement, seeing as there is no fault, of course!

I did ask how many of their thousands of customers would have the setup we are complaining about, and of those what percentage have complained. Of course, they don't have this data.

I notice that some of you have noted that this is a hot topic on other forums. Would you be so kind as to provide a link to the discussion. I am considering how I might get some kind of mass complaint - maybe a joint letter, or petition - going. Let Audi have the stats they are currently lacking.

Cheers

[soofsayer]

I have already posted on this. Galaxy Nexus (for example) needs to be rooted and the rSAP application purchased (less than £10). It then works perfectly as long as you choose the carphone connection option in the MMI.

I have been running my A7 with my Nexus for a couple of months and it works perfectly with the online services etc. No problems here thanks!

[gregpawley]

Can i ask what app you are using to add the rSAP into the bluetooth stack, also what is involved when you say rooted? Thinking of getting the S3 when it launches, currently using mt Nokia E7 and works perfectly?

[s555]

Well, I didn't get anywhere with getting a commitment for a fix for the UK market. But we have come to an arrangement, so I will now bow out of this discussion.

Good luck to all of you in your own crusades and stick to your guns.

Cheers

[jbanfie]

Right - I'm coming in on this too as I think there is quite a lot of Audi Bashing that is unjustified.

Apple don't support rSAP - the Bluetooth Stack isn't quite good enough (currently) - hence iphones and MMI online services don't mix well - but surely this is true for any car manufacturer that attempts to integrate the internet with a cars internals and an external mobile phone.

Good on Audi for trying - bad on Apple for no rSAP.

However bad on Apple is no surprise, they don't support the DLNA either, only Airplay so much of their stuff is propietary and if they did make a car, then the iPhone would probably only support that one car and not even Bluetooth.

Proprietary isn't really that great an approach, however because Apple hit on a number of cool products, itunes the app store and gave away the development tools for free (as long as you have a Mac), then they are now one of the biggest companies in the world. Itunes is pretty poor too.

All of that said, we have 3 iPhones in our house because they are a good phone, internet browser and have Facetime which is good when you go abroad and the ski chalet has free Wifi - but Skype on Andriod would be with same!

Therefore I shall replace my iPhone with a Galaxy III or someone will finally produce a windows phone worth having and I'll get that. I'll do both of those way before I change thoughts on Audi.

Perhaps we should start a vote on whether Audi's MMI, or Apples no rSAP is spoiling the moment - I firmly blame Apple, mainly as Audi have no where to go!

[jakerade]

Samsung no longer natively supports rSAP on the latest galaxy phones (Android 4) and neither does Windows (well Nokia Lumina doesnt!)

As mentioned before, no idea why Audi is relying on rSAP on new models as very few providers support it without rooting phones and adding additional software which may or may not work.

The Internet seems to work on a BMW without all this messing around..........

[s555]

I said I'll bow out, but just to argue one point on the previous post.

I don't blame Audi for not supporting data via the iPhone. This is Apple's fault.

My beef is that when I plug a data SIM in to the dash, it immediately disables the bluetooth to my iPhone. If they could allow data via the SIM and calls via Bluetooth, I would be happy.

Couldn't care less about rSAP.

Cheers

[jakerade]

info on android rsap support

http://www.android-rsap.com/compatibility.html

[smsabc]

I said I'll bow out, but just to argue one point on the previous post.

I don't blame Audi for not supporting data via the iPhone. This is Apple's fault.

My beef is that when I plug a data SIM in to the dash, it immediately disables the bluetooth to my iPhone. If they could allow data via the SIM and calls via Bluetooth, I would be happy.

Couldn't care less about rSAP.

Cheers

I completely Agree with you. If we want to use data via a seperate sim in the dash, why can't we carry on using a Phone via the cars Bluetooth connection? That's my beef with Audi too. They've never once offered any reason why this can't be done, only agreed numerous times that it would make sense if it was possible to do. I know they are aware of this request from many many customers for over a year now, but just won't do anything about it. The fact that they still make such a big promotional thing about the data/Google/MMI/handsfree integrtion functionality on these cars whilst demonstrating it in promotional videos with less popular phones that are already out of date should have given us a clue - it doesn't work with current popular technology and is frankly very poor indeed! The cars are great otherwise, just give us some good customer support Audi, because there's a lot of your customers out here very unhappy about this.

[Timothy Nathan]

s555 has hit the nail on the head.

It is not Audi's fault that iPhone don't support rSAP. It is Audi's fault that they choose to rely on an outdated technology, then deliberately write their software to screw over anyone with an iPhone, then treat us, their best customers, like dirt and completely ignore us.

It is losing them loads of top end sales by my hand alone. It's not the technology but the contempt which really bothers me.

[jakerade]

I always assumed the sim in the dash would work and its a good thing that threads like this highlight that it doesn't and try to do something about it.

[s555]

to the person that PMd me... I don't have enough posts to reply (need 10) but I unable to tell you anything just yet.

[jbanfie]

OK, I've changed my mind Audi don't look good on this.

A modern BMW has an internal SIM owned and paid for by BMW that does telematics etc and you can use an iPhone app to unlock you car remotely - or call them and they will unlock you car - using this internal SIM - really cool

This SIM has nothing to do with online services

You can't put another SIM in the car

You have to connect your data enabled phone via bluetooth to get online services

The salesman I spoke to did not know HOW it does it, but all iphone 3GS, iphone 4 etc "just work"

Hmmm - that's a bit annoying and now I understand everyone's point

Trouble is Audi will come up with a solution, but I doubt it will be a retro fit option and all current owners will be stuck with what they have - but this has always been the case; when iphone came out there wasn't a hope in hell of transferring the phone book from the iphone to my Lexus - when we bought a mini, 3 years later, phone book transfer from iphone was instant on pairing!

So Audi are behind the curve, which I bet they really hate!

[sebbie]

s555, spot on mate!

I don't care about RSAP, all I want is internet access via data SIM and have my iPhone connected via BlueTooth.

I went to o2 guru and apparently none of available handsets offer "full RSAP", closest (BB9900 and Samsung Galaxy S2) have incomplete support and they may or may not work. I was also advised that latest Android devices discontinued support and it looks like this technology is almost dead.

I tried T-Mobile data sim in my 2012 model A6 with Tech Pack and it disconnects my iPhone just as other people reported. I contacted Audi UK and they sent me to website which shows list of "bluetooth compatible phones" which lists iPhone as "fully suppported", not much help...

[jakerade]

I wonder if you can reject a car on the basis of "not fit for purpose" - would give Audi something to think about...

I guess they would argue that all this is pointed out on the very small print on the configurator.

Auto Express have a very good watchdog which might be worth contacting. I agree with the comment above that they will probably fix it on the next model year but stuff the owners that have already paid for a pretty useless option

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/282844/watchdog_warranty_cover_falls_short.html

[sebbie]

OK, I've changed my mind Audi don't look good on this.

A modern BMW has an internal SIM owned and paid for by BMW that does telematics etc and you can use an iPhone app to unlock you car remotely - or call them and they will unlock you car - using this internal SIM - really cool

This SIM has nothing to do with online services

You can't put another SIM in the car

You have to connect your data enabled phone via bluetooth to get online services

The salesman I spoke to did not know HOW it does it, but all iphone 3GS, iphone 4 etc "just work"

Trouble is Audi will come up with a solution, but I doubt it will be a retro fit option and all current owners will be stuck with what they have - but this has always been the case; when iphone came out there wasn't a hope in hell of transferring the phone book from the iphone to my Lexus - when we bought a mini, 3 years later, phone book transfer from iphone was instant on pairing!

So Audi are behind the curve, which I bet they really hate!

BMW charges £250 for 3 years subscription and data is pulled using integrated SIM card (they use Vodafone in UK if I remember correctly). If you don't pay your online services won't work, fortunately you do get 3 years free plan with new vehicle. Someone who claimed it pulls data from iPhone didn't know what he/she is talking about as it is simply not possible with iPhone, because of limitation imposed by Apple.

iPhone pairing with Audi works seamlessly and there are no problems if your car is made in last decade, it downloads phone book and in few minutes you're ready to go. The only problem is with simultaneous use of iPhone with online services in latest MMI 3G+ which is what this topic is about :)

[jbanfie]

The BMW guy didn't know what he was talking about then? The internal BMW SIM only uses EDGE so it would be slow then?

[sebbie]

The BMW guy didn't know what he was talking about then? The internal BMW SIM only uses EDGE so it would be slow then?

Sorry, I didn't mean to judge anyone, I was trying to point the fact it is not possible to pull data through iPhone due to technical limitations and that BMW5 (I considred BMW5 before placing order for A6) uses internal SIM do get online services.

I don't know how fast internal BMW module is, internet access is on my "nice to have", not "must have" list.

[smsabc]

I wonder if you can reject a car on the basis of "not fit for purpose" - would give Audi something to think about...

I guess they would argue that all this is pointed out on the very small print on the configurator.

Auto Express have a very good watchdog which might be worth contacting. I agree with the comment above that they will probably fix it on the next model year but stuff the owners that have already paid for a pretty useless option

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/282844/watchdog_warranty_cover_falls_short.html

Interesting that youbuse the phrase 'Not fit for purpose' as in the earlier editions of the A7 brochure and also on the Audi website, it clearly inferred that BT AND MMI could be used and made no mention that you couldn't use the phone via BT and the online services/google maps at the same time. This was quickly updated on the next edition of the brochure to allude that certain services may not be compatable with certain phones. I understand that Audi didn't realise that in the UK, unlike other countries, only Orange could supply a duplicate SIM card for your car that would allow users to have the same phone number as your phone. On the dash SIM. Audi UK admitted that this caught them by surprse and they reported it to Germany after many buyers discovered the problem and complained. Audi held a meeting in Germany to discuss this issue a few months ago but decided that they would do nothing to fix it or even update the software to allow users to select their phone as the default device while allowing the SIM in the dash to carry on supplying data services. 'Not fit for purpose' could apply to Audi's attitude towards their UK customers I'm afraid, which is a shame.

[s555]

They are not going to commit to anyone that they will fix this. Maybe they simply cannot fix it - even though the fix seems simple.

They will also not agree that it is a fault. Then they are open to legal action.

One thing is clear, the official workaround of "dual sims" does not work in the UK. The providers I have spoken to, Vodafone and EE (T-Mobile-Orange) have ditched this service.

If they tell you to go to some corner shop mobile phone specialist for a pair of cloned SIMs, quote the communications act 2003 to them, which makes it a specific offence to clone a SIM card.

If they then start getting clever with you, ask them to recommend a new phone that WILL work with the car.

Audi are not especially worried about the problem is what I can conclude.
In the grand scheme of things, it's small bunch of owners with a particular requirement of a particular range of cars that have bought a particular, premium, option.

Their bread and butter is company cars on a lease, where expensive options are often not allowed, or are not tax efficient.

I would guess, therefore, that the majority of people with this problem are private owners. Private owners with a bit of wedge maybe, but not a multi-national company with its own fleet management department and five thousand Audis on their books.

The best you can hope to acheive is to get some "good will" money off Audi. Aim for the cost of the option.

Good luck

[Timothy Nathan]

There is the fix of popping your SIM from the phone, putting into a carrier and putting in the dash whenever you get into the car and pulling it out using a screwdriver (the carriers don't just pop out) and reinserting the SIM whenever you get out.

It makes every stop for a sandwich or wee quite a palaver, and also means having to keep an Apple tool, a carrier and a small screwdriver in the car.

Every time I do it, I visualise senior managers at Audi sniggering into their hands watching me faff around. I feel the same when I go into an expensive, posh restaurant and they give me so little food that I leave hungry. They must laugh their socks off.

It is the single thing most likely to put me off buying again or recommending to colleagues. I hope to cost Audi more in the bad publicity I generate than it would have cost them to put it right. They'll never know, but it'll make me feel better!

[aurora7]

Can anyone remember/verify the point (that I think has been discussed here) that this DOES work in the US, i.e. they provide a mechanism for a separate data sim card to be used whilst the iPhone (or other modern smartphone) is connected via bluetooth? Because if it does work that way in the US, then surely it's a software fix that could be implemented over here?

[smsabc]

So there we have it. Lots of very Peed off Audi owners that WILL probably do more harm than good to Audi's name. All for feeling rightly annoyed for what appears to be an oversold and missold product. It plainly doesn't work for the vast majority of their users and until this is addressed, Audi can NEVER say they care about or want the best for their customers.

[jakerade]

I see they are piling all this tech on the new A3 (probably with the same problems) so will be interesting to see what happens when there are loads of cars with this issue.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/283108/new_audi_a3_full_story.html

I am about to change my car hence my interest but i have also messed around with the rsap adapter in the past so saw this coming. And i havent mentioned what happens to your text messages whilst your sim is attached to the car......

If I had a car and found this didn't work and had made no headway with Audi UK, I would definitely be off to Auto Express Watchdog or similar to make some noise.

[sebbie]

So there we have it. Lots of very Peed off Audi owners that WILL probably do more harm than good to Audi's name. All for feeling rightly annoyed for what appears to be an oversold and missold product. It plainly doesn't work for the vast majority of their users and until this is addressed, Audi can NEVER say they care about or want the best for their customers.

We have this massively complex machines on our driveways doing hundreds of thousand of miles without blink of eye. It truly amazes me that this one minor issue causes so many and so aggressive comments how Audi "doesn't care".

After reading this it stroke me: how PERFECT this car is if this MICRO QUIBBLE causes such OUTRAGE? :aargh4:

[Timothy Nathan]

Audi put such a lot of resource into saving us tiny amounts of effort, like dipping the lights or switching the wipers on, that to spoil it all by causing us to sit in our cars for a couple of minutes at the beginning and end of every journey is more than a minor quibble.

If you are totally satisfied, that's great, tell your friends.

The difficulty for Audi is that every negative comment is worth 50 good ones.

[MFGF]

Their bread and butter is company cars on a lease, where expensive options are often not allowed, or are not tax efficient.

I would guess, therefore, that the majority of people with this problem are private owners. Private owners with a bit of wedge maybe, but not a multi-national company with its own fleet management department and five thousand Audis on their books.

Not in my case. Mine is leased by one of Leaseplan's largest corporate clients. We have our own dedicated customer services agents at Leaseplan. From previous experience with software issues on MMI 3G in my last C6, I'm sad to say that getting them involved does no good. They simply blame the dealer who is already bending over backwards trying to help you, then insist you take the car to a different dealer. It's not the poor guys on Service Reception or in the dealer workshop that are to blame, but try explaining that to a fleet "troubleshooter" with a hectic schedule!

MF.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[smsabc]

We have this massively complex machines on our driveways doing hundreds of thousand of miles without blink of eye. It truly amazes me that this one minor issue causes so many and so aggressive comments how Audi "doesn't care".

After reading this it stroke me: how PERFECT this car is if this MICRO QUIBBLE causes such OUTRAGE? :aargh4:

As I have already said, it's a real pity. as otherwise it is such a great car. Put it this way, Audi heavily promotes the functionality of the MMI/Handsfree Phone/data system to attract buyers to this additional option. I paid for it, it doesn't work, I pointed it out to Audi who also agreed that it doesn't work. I asked if it ever would and eventually when pushed they said probably not. I asked for a refund, they said no. I and many others on this forum consider this poor customer service. (After all this is a forum for airing our experiences and hopefully assisting others too). If things were the other way round and we'd all ordered this from Audi but refused to pay for it, they would be taking things much further than airing their views pn a forum.

[MFGF]

Can anyone remember/verify the point (that I think has been discussed here) that this DOES work in the US, i.e. they provide a mechanism for a separate data sim card to be used whilst the iPhone (or other modern smartphone) is connected via bluetooth? Because if it does work that way in the US, then surely it's a software fix that could be implemented over here?

This is what I am wondering, but I suspect finding an accurate answer will be difficult. It's possible that the hardware installed differs slightly to allow this function, or it could be just a coding change. We could really do with finding a willing US A6 driver who also has VCDS, and comparing the long coding in their car vs one of ours. In truth, I doubt it will be a simple change like that, though, or else Audi would have implemented it as a fix.

MF.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[sebbie]

Audi put such a lot of resource into saving us tiny amounts of effort, like dipping the lights or switching the wipers on, that to spoil it all by causing us to sit in our cars for a couple of minutes at the beginning and end of every journey is more than a minor quibble.

If you are totally satisfied, that's great, tell your friends.

The difficulty for Audi is that every negative comment is worth 50 good ones.

I'm not satisfied it doesn't work with my iPhone 4S but it is not end of the world. You are clearly frustrated by this problem and fair enough, everyone has their own priorities. I'm just little surprised that access to Google Earth/Street view, online traffic, news and weather on dash is so extremely important that makes otherwise perfectly working car irrelevant.

PS: I paid extra for Tech Pack and I'm interested in making it work to its full capabilities. However, I think rant "how terrible Audi is" because it has one issue is not very productive and it is very unlikely it will help solving problem.

[Timothy Nathan]

I don't expect the problem to be solved.

My emphasis is on my making myself feeling better about Audi treating me with contempt by punishing them by giving negative references.

[jbanfie]

Hi has anyone tried the android-rsap dot com answer to the challenge on an ice-cream sandwich Galaxy S2? Version 4 of Android - Ice Cream Sandwich - does not support rSAP either.

I think I'll move to a Galaxy S3 in due course, I emailed Martin at android-rsap - seems like a nice chap - and he is bursting to get his hands on the S3 to get cracking on a solution.

I do feel a bit sorry for Audi as the world has clearly moved underneath them, but then I agree with Timothy that they could be a lot more pro-active in developing solutions for the UK.

I've been bursting to ditch Apple iPhone for a while as I don't like their philosophy one bit.

I take it no one got the rSAP app for iPhone to work properly in the end?

[jakerade]

This is what I am wondering, but I suspect finding an accurate answer will be difficult. It's possible that the hardware installed differs slightly to allow this function, or it could be just a coding change. We could really do with finding a willing US A6 driver who also has VCDS, and comparing the long coding in their car vs one of ours. In truth, I doubt it will be a simple change like that, though, or else Audi would have implemented it as a fix.

MF.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Have you tried Audiforums.us? There is a guy called CraigyB on there who is actually based in Manchester and does a lot of satnav / MMI retrofits. Lots of knowledgeable people from the US as well.

http://audiforum.us/search/65183/?q=rsap+mmi&o=date