ABC V6 Cat, please help

[fourringsrus]

Evening all , I've just had my latest toy fail the mot on emissions and the guy strongly believes it needs a cat.
Question is where to get one without breaking the bank.
The car is a '95 coupe 2.6 ABC V6 front wheel drive manual with a single cat , but it has a powerflow or powermax system and the cat is welded in line.Do I look for a freeflow cat to match up to the system or is that not required, or is there such a thing as a universal one type fits all kind available.
Obviously the dud one needs cutting out and the replacement will need to come with some kind of adapter sleeve to slot it back in .
Just wondered what you boys do and where to try

Many thanks all

Stuart


co max 0.30% , reading 0.53% fail.fast idle test
c0 max 0.30% , reading 0.50% fail 2nd fast idle test
Does this reading say cat to you boys or does it suggest the issue is elsewhere

[Crasher]

As long as the cat can be removed (what is welded in line?) then the VAG number for the cat was 8A0 131 702 AF but is now 8A0 131 089 AX and is about £450 exchange from Audi. These are available from BM catalysts (not brilliant quality) under there number BM90380 and from HS (top quality) under their number 90 11 5620.

http://www.bmcatalysts.co.uk (http://www.bmcatalysts.co.uk/)

http://www.hjs.com/en/0/0/seite_1/index.php (http://www.hjs.com/en/0/0/seite_1/index.php)

[fourringsrus]

Hi Steve , thanks for the numbers, the cat in my system has had the flanges at each end removed and then " butt " welded into the system. The system is a larger bore item than factory and I was hoping to find some kind of universal fit cat to sleeve into the system.

Steve , do the co figures sound condusive with a failed cat or should I be looking at lambdas or sensors elsewhere?


Thanks
Stuart

[Crasher]

You are stuffed, the only solution is custom made or resort to new down pipes, cat and system.

[fourringsrus]

Thanks Steve , best do some homework

[fourringsrus]

Does anybody else have an opinion on whether the co reading is due to cat failure

[Crasher]

What was the lambda figure on the two tests?

[scotty33]

possibly a lambda or temp sensor problem? worthwhile testing them anyway, won't do the new cat much good if duff.

http://www.12v.org/maintenance/repairs/ect.php
http://www.12v.org/maintenance/repairs/o2sens.php

[fourringsrus]

Hi guys, the lambda
limits 0.97-1.03
reading 1.02 pass on both tests

[Crasher]

If the lambda reading is 1.02 then that suggests that the mixture coming down the tubes is correct and the cat should be doing its job. Certainly I would not fit a new cat without and fault code scan and a good look at the lambda sensors feed.

[fourringsrus]

OK ,I have no access to a code reader and the car is off the road, is there anything I can do to check the lambda and temp sensors, ie ; visual check for condition or physical damage.
I have just replaced the radiator and that had some kind of sensor on the lower offside just above the bottom hose.Is this the sensor you mention or is there another one elsewhere. I assume that this sensor is ok as the gauge and fans are cutting in at the right time ie; 90 degrees on the gauge

[Crasher]

You need professional help with this, without a gas tester and a diagnostic computer you cannot see what is going on.

[fourringsrus]

OK Steve, thankyou for the advice , I'll keep you all posted, maybe the mot station can scan the car , they are a pretty reputable bunch

Stuart

[chairman_mo]

This may not be of much help but what the hell. I had similar problems with my MoT last year but with the added sympton of a weird rattling coming from under the car. Turns out the cat had begun to physically break up and hence wasn't doing it job. I expected a monster bill but my local independent VW/Audi specialist charged me £120 for the cat plus half an hours labour to fit it.

[fourringsrus]

This may not be of much help but what the hell. I had similar problems with my MoT last year but with the added sympton of a weird rattling coming from under the car. Turns out the cat had begun to physically break up and hence wasn't doing it job. I expected a monster bill but my local independent VW/Audi specialist charged me £120 for the cat plus half an hours labour to fit it.

Thanks mo, I did the same myself last year on the silver coupe, but this bugger has 2.25 inch system and has all flanges removed and welded up.If I cant get to the bottom of whats causing the bad readings I may have to find replacement downpipes and cat to join back into the system properly.

[chairman_mo]

There are a couple of folk I've seen on ebay who do complete custom systems for a Coupe including a Cat, it sounds like you may have one fitted. From memory MIJ in Walsall and the other one was in Watford but I can't remember the name. They or someone similar may be your best bet given the system you have fitted.

[scotty33]

Stuart, both the ECU temp sender and O2 sensors can be faulty, but not throw a fault code. You can test their function yourself quite easily with a multimeter.
If they are out of the specified range they are faulty and misleading the ECU, there will be no fault code thrown unless they are shorted or open circuit.

http://www.12v.org/engine/index.php?section=cl&view=rear

links to tests posted earlier

[m50yre]

OK so shoot me down in flames if you want but here goes anyway, im not familiar with the V6 but looking on ETKA heres what we have;

Number 11 Temp Sensor £25+VAT and number 14 Temp sender £80+VAT

See attachment.13695

[scotty33]

Number 11, is G62 coolant temp sender for ECU,

[fourringsrus]

Number 11, is G62 coolant temp sender for ECU,

Thanks boys, you are great , scotty is the g62 the one I'm likely to be after, as I don't want to just throw money around unless its on a good probability

Stuart

[b3coupe]

Hi there, if it's any help i have been looking round for replacement down pipes and cat for my v6 95 coupe, best price i can find is
single cat 4 bolt flange £75
pair of down pipes £68
from online automotive
Mybe you could bolt in the above and leave just one joint to make good after the cat into your system, (i'am sure any powerflow outlet would make the joint for you).

:aargh4:be very careful removeing the downpipe nuts as they are prone to snapping off the studs which will be corroded in the flanges were the water collects.
Regards Steve

[fourringsrus]

Thankyou boys , Ill let you all know how I get on

[fourringsrus]

BOYS,BOYS,BOYS,BOYS,BOYS
I have just realised that at nowhere in this story have I mentioned that this car also has some kind of induction kit
1- could this device be having any kind of adverse influence on things
2-if I convert it back to the standard set up will any thing require adjusting or re-setting ( must admit the sucking noise is quite irritating so it will probably get removed )
I assume that if this kit is giving max air the readings coming out the back would be
1, ok as it is self adjusting
2,leaner rather than rich

Just wondered if this makes any difference to the emissions test

Many thanks and sorry for failing to submit sufficient details

Stuart

[fourringsrus]

UPDATE UPDATE,I took the car for re-test this morning and nailed it all the way as suggested.
The emissions were better but still not good enough.
As my other ABC coupe passed the test at the same place on Thursday we agreed that swapping the temp sensor and sender would possibly be prudent.
Shot home ,swapped sensor and sender and all six plugs and returned.......... better but not good enough
Shot home , shot myself , goodbye..........
No not really , but felt like it.
Now both fellas who have tested the car are saying cat , so I am now looking at that route

The results thus far
1st mot co max permitted 0.30%........ reading 0.53% fail
hc max 200ppm..........reading 77ppm
lambda 0.97-1.03..........1.02 ..pass

1st mot 2nd test
co 0.50%
hc 174
lambda 1.02


This AM Retest
co 0.55% FAIL

previously passed parts fitted
co 0.44
Now as some numpty has had all flanges removed and replaced with weld the exhaust had to be cut off because the downpipes are too wide as one lump , to drop out through the subframe
At least I can now put it all back to how it should be.
Any thoughts or comments welcome

Stuart

[Crasher]

The lambda looks good, it will probably be a failed cat.

[fourringsrus]

The lambda looks good, it will probably be a failed cat.


Thanks Steve, once I have found and fitted the parts required and had retest I'll let you all know the results

[fourringsrus]

Hi there, if it's any help i have been looking round for replacement down pipes and cat for my v6 95 coupe, best price i can find is
single cat 4 bolt flange £75
pair of down pipes £68
from online automotive
Mybe you could bolt in the above and leave just one joint to make good after the cat into your system, (i'am sure any powerflow outlet would make the joint for you).

:aargh4:be very careful removeing the downpipe nuts as they are prone to snapping off the studs which will be corroded in the flanges were the water collects.
Regards Steve

Yep thanks mate , I have checked them out and the prices are now £71 plus vat on the downpipes and I have found a cat local at £100 inc vat delivered, so £200 sorts me out, lets hope this is an end to it.
Many thanks to all, I'll post after re-fit and re-test

Stuart

[m50yre]

Hi Stuart,

Hope you get on OK with online automotive as when i needed a downpipe they showed one available but when i ordered it they said they couldnt source one but could get me one from Audi, got it cheaper from Audi in the end myself, after getting the 10% off for being in this club.

[fourringsrus]

Hi Stuart,

Hope you get on OK with online automotive as when i needed a downpipe they showed one available but when i ordered it they said they couldnt source one but could get me one from Audi, got it cheaper from Audi in the end myself, after getting the 10% off for being in this club.

Thanks matey, they should arrive sometime Tuesday.
I should have ordered my cat from them too , as the local Eurotwatparts let me down this afternoon, oh well , only what I expect from them
Let you all know how I get on Tuesday pm

[fourringsrus]

Good day forum friends, yes it's a good day , after fitting the pair of new downpipes and new cat yesterday evening and returning to the re-test this morning, I now have a clean bill of health and 12 months mot.
I will take this moment to thank all contributers and advisers for their opinions and knowledge and just reitterate what a smashing and selfless bunch you all are
Many thanks all

Stuart

[toby01]

This thread has been very handy in sorting out the problems with my v6's emissions. My car is very smoky at start up and is burning fuel very rapidly (24 - 30mpg if lucky). Could this also be the lambda sensor?

[Crasher]

Could be the temp sender.

[scotty33]

Tests for coolant temp sensor and O2 sensors: (http://www.12v.org/maintenance/repairs/ect.php)

http://www.12v.org/maintenance/repairs/ect.php
http://www.12v.org/maintenance/repairs/o2sens.php

[toby01]

Thanks for your help guys. Would the dodgy temp sensors explain why my car keeps bogging down at low revs? It's getting dodgy at busy roundabouts!

[toby01]

Is this the temp sensor i need

http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Audi_Coupe_2.6_1996/p/car-parts/car-cooling-parts-and-car-heating/cooling/car-switch-and-car-sensor/?460440710&1&7ab32b7d469f5bc335ab9be793ec676d8e7277c3&TMPS