PDA

View Full Version : Customer Rights - Faulty Car



steely_resolve
10-03-2011, 09:01 AM
I live in the UK and have owned from new an A5 which has developed a fault, that so far even Audi are unable to rectify.

The car is 30 months old and in the past two months developed a fault causing a flat battery on numerous occasions. It has been into the two separate dealerships for investigation on three occasions in total.

Currently the car is left at one of the dealerships and has been with them now for over two weeks. While they admit that there is a fault, that a power pike is drawing charge from the battery when the car is left parked up, they are none the wiser as to what is causing the problem.

I am now in the position of owning a car with a fault that even Audi are so far unable to resolve and thinking of asking them for a refund. I would not entertain a replacement car as what is to say this might happen again and would not own an Audi ever again at this rate.

I would like to know if anyone, particularly from the UK has had a fault with any model of Audi still under warranty that had not been resolved and what the outcome was.

I would appreciate only those people who have actually gone through this process to reply to this thread and not anyone guessing what my rights are as I need to know where I stand with hard facts.

Many thanks

Dave

Eshrules
10-03-2011, 09:43 AM
The hard facts, as I can see them are that you've owned the vehicle for 30 months, only in the last 2 months has it developed a fault - under the warrnty of which Audi are currently trying to resolve.

Assuming you've had no issues prior to this, requesting a refund is an option (not at this moment in time I hasten to add)- however, it will be reduced taking into account the depreciation of the vehicle and the fair use you've had for the previous 30 months.

Two weeks isn't excessive - my suggestion would be to allow them to exhaust their diagnostics, they have no choice but to rectify the fault.

steely_resolve
11-03-2011, 08:34 AM
Thanks Esh, couple of worrying aspects are the car has been in three times for investigation, even the current dealership dealing with the problem have spoken to Audi in German and have no further clue as to the cause, now that does concern me.

At this rate going to them to refund me the full market value of the car and stay clear of Audi's in future.

Dave

Crasher
11-03-2011, 10:44 AM
At the risk of offending you I think you are over reacting a little and asking for a full refund on a 30 month old car is going to get you nowhere. If you are put off a make of car this easily, starting at A for Audi should get you through the alphabet of roughly 15 major manufacturers quite quickly; all modern cars can develop odd electronic issues as they are so loaded with electronics.

tlionhart
11-03-2011, 11:08 AM
If the fault can't be rectified, I don't think you will get a full refund. If the car is on finance, you would prob only see half of what you've paid. Each case is different. My dad had a paint defect on his last car, in the end he just sold it and ordered another one. If the car is in their workshop as you speak until they find a resolution, then nothing can be done at this stage. As they will claim they are trying to rectify it. They should have provided you a loan car for the duration of this work. If they say they can't fix the fault, the next stage would be to contact Audi UK. I know they aren't the kind to just chuck out refunds like returning a product to a named high street store.
I would expect them to replace the car for a like for like model, if audi admit they can't rectify the fault. However as you state the car is in repair now, so along as they have given you a similar (A4 or another A5) whilst your car is in for repair, I would just wait for the outcome.

As mentioned my dad had a similar issue with the car being constantly back, going to 3 different Audi's, contact with audi uk and trading standards. The bodyshop did carry out the work, but it was like a cancer. Whatever work they did just new problems would crop up. I had my car delivered and he like the look of that and just said 'sod it' Audi can have it back and he had to order a new one with his own money. Mind you the car he owned was about 3yrs old at the time. I've learnt now, as soon as problem after problem happens with the car, its time to trade it in. Cars, especially audi are too expensive to keep having sent in for repair if you have a troublesome car.

Hopefully your problem is just a one off and keep us updated. I also know its a bit disheartening and a real pain when you get a problem with a car, however this shouldn't put you off ordering a new one or sticking with Audi. You could order a new car and have a huge list of faults. Its no different to buying the new latest iphone or a computer, they are loaded with software and at times decide to just not work for the unfortunate customer who picks it up. :)

Eshrules
11-03-2011, 11:20 AM
As per above and my post - you will not see a full 'market value' refund - you've had the car just short of 3 years, you will not(and nor do I expect Audi will entertain the idea) get a full refund.

The most positive plan of action would be to allow Audi to continue in their diagnostics, if they're unable to rectify they will offer a replacement.

I personally think you need to forget the idea of getting cash back - you will either have your current car repaired (yes, eventually) or offered a like for like replacement.

JON76
11-03-2011, 05:14 PM
Hi

I've read this post with interest, as I am a Purchasing Manager by profession (not in the automotive industry I hasten to add) and also a member of a professional supply chain body so I know a thing or two about warranty claims.

I have to say that from a contract point of view the advice you've had from the other guys on this is bang on, so I don't have a lot more to add.

I would reiterate what the others have said - give Audi reasonable opportunity to diagnose the fault and only start looking at other options when you are absolutely sure that all investigations have been exhausted.

What I will say is that, if you can't get this sorted and Audi offer you a replacement vehicle of similar age, specification and condition, then I would take it, as this would be seen as a reasonable offer against a warranty claim by a court of law. A refund of the current value of your car would be seen as extremely generous, and a refund of the original purchase price would be unheard of.

Hope this bit of free professional advice is of some use, and hope you get sorted soon.

baylissboy
11-03-2011, 10:11 PM
Current draw issues like the problem your car has are always very difficult to sort!! Modern Audi's are full of control units, any of which can cause the cars communication systems to stay "awake". Two weeks really isn't a long time in the grand scheme of things, so I'd suggest leaving the dealer to sort the issue.

a8 tech
11-03-2011, 10:35 PM
dito

Crasher
11-03-2011, 11:06 PM
I was just about to say that your input would be nice on this, don’t you have anything to add?

a8 tech
11-03-2011, 11:19 PM
need to know what spec it is

do you have mmi 3g hdd or 3g dvd

do you have gen 3 radio

do you have any retro fits

do you have a towbar

do you have a trakker

what is the drain spike recording from the scope long term test

what is the battery ageing reading

do you have a battery manager history log from address 19

and what is the average recorded closed circuit reading

Having lots of success with 8k battery drains I tend to find one common problem

earlier workshop actions for battery manager issues required the control unit updating and a new battery in most cases but the software update should be running sw version 150, this can be checked in address 19

if its running below this then the manger itself drains the battery by not allowing the networks to shut down also defective alternators voltage regulators only found by disconnecting when testing closed circuit current

Eshrules
12-03-2011, 12:32 AM
where do you two get this stuff from? You're like VAG sponges!

Crasher
12-03-2011, 11:47 AM
He’s worse than I am, I have to look some stuff up, he remembers it all!

steely_resolve
12-03-2011, 10:23 PM
Thanks to you all for your comments and advise, I think I'll continue to let the dealership continuing to investigate it further for the time being.

I'll keep you posted on what happens as and when.

steely_resolve
05-04-2011, 09:29 PM
Collected the car today from Stoke Audi. The Convenience Control Unit has been replaced and the car tested by being left to stand for a week.

Hopefully this has resolved the problem for good and thank you to those of you who have replied and also offered words of support.

Dave

a8 tech
05-04-2011, 09:37 PM
Great news j393 was it, wonder what was staying active.Do you have keyless entry

steely_resolve
21-04-2011, 09:49 PM
At the weekend I got another flat battery.

I'd been valetting and vacuuming out the inside of the car with the door open for a few hours, which I have done on numerous occasions over the past few years without a problem. I made sure no interior lights remained on whilst cleaning the car. Although this may have contributed to the battery going flat I don't really know, but it shouldn't be the case I'm sure. I've owned mainly cars in the past and done exactly the same without any issues with battery, also I know someone who owns a TT and accidentally left his interior light on overnight without any problems.

RAC Assistance checked the battery and reported a reading of 10.73 volts and a bad cell.

I reported this to Stoke Audi when I dropped off the car the following day. Since then they have reported a fault with the battery and replaced it today with a new one.

Since this and my last post, Stoke Audi have carried out a free service on my car which was due and I have also been in negotiation with Audi UK regarding extending the warranty when it expires as a good will gesture.

I'm going to speak Audi UK again next week with whom I have a case reference and give them an ultimatum. Should the problem return I will be insisting on a refund for the current market value of the car.

Again I'll post in the near future once I'd had chance to use the car to see if the problem seems to be fully resolved for good.

Dave

a8 tech
22-04-2011, 06:33 AM
stoke is a good dealer in my opinion for what's its worth and I'm sure they are working hard to resolve this for you.

Crasher
22-04-2011, 11:55 AM
Is that the original battery?

steely_resolve
22-04-2011, 01:27 PM
stoke is a good dealer in my opinion for what's its worth and I'm sure they are working hard to resolve this for you.

Yeah 'a8 tech' I agree there is no denying the staff at Stoke Audi and also at Audi UK are doing their best to resolve the problem. Stoke last time had the car for 7 weeks and were in regular contact with Audi UK's technical team.

I am being objective and truthfull when I post on here and can't question at all the commitment in trying to resolve the issue, but the fact remains that I car is extremely unrealiable.

If anything my confidence is gone in the Audi brand, I'm sure one day the fault will be rectified but I am anxious that the car has had so much attention and the fault keeps returning. I have car that cost £28k from new and shouldn't have to be prepared to catch a bus to work like I have on some occasions.

baylissboy
22-04-2011, 09:56 PM
stoke is a good dealer in my opinion for what's its worth and I'm sure they are working hard to resolve this for you.Thanks for that!