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rdj_s3_quattro
24-06-2007, 09:10 PM
HI everyone,

I have recently had braking problems (rather lack of braking!!) in the end discs and pads on the front were renewed, however the brakes still do not feel strong!!!

I have only had my S3 4 months and have never driven another one, so i have the problem of having nothing to compare it to.

Any ideas?? My S3 is 2000, 210 model, i have however drove my father's A3 tdi new shape, think its 2006 and his brakes are far superior to mine, can anyone exlain if this should be the case?? I would of thought the 'performance' model would surely have better brakes than a 'dieslel' model surely/>>????

Is there a common problem with this on 2000, 210 S3's ???

The garage tells me there is nothing wrong with them, but i do not feel confident driving, and it certainly ends any 'spirited' driving as the brakes are so weak!!

Any comments or recommended upgrades would be appreciated!

thanks

russ

Gunzi
29-06-2007, 02:08 PM
What does the brake pedal like when you push it down? Does the pedal feel "spongy" or hard etc?

rdj_s3_quattro
30-06-2007, 10:42 PM
hi

thanks for the interest!

The brakes feel spongy, the pedal travels about half way down (half way of its full travel) before the brakes feel like they're doin anything...is this normal??

I've had new pads and discs, so i presumed they bled them properly when fitted.

The car jsut doesn't seem too safe, and makes it a dog to drive, whats the point in having all that acceleration if u cant scrub off speed quick enough to enjoy it!

Any suggestions??

cheers mate
r

lostmarbles
30-06-2007, 10:49 PM
Not all garages will bleed your brakes just because you're haveing new disks and pads. It's always worth asking them if they did, or even having another garage have a go at them, but if possible, try to find someone with a pressure bleeder as these things push the fluid, and often trapped air out realy well. Hope this helps.

Gunzi
02-07-2007, 09:10 AM
Yep, definitely worth going to get the brakes bled, that should solve the problem :beerchug:

rdj_s3_quattro
02-07-2007, 01:30 PM
Alright guys

thansk for the advice, i'll try getting them bled! Hopefully that will solve the porblem.

One last point; when i bought the car (Second hand) it came with grooved and drilled discs front and rear, but since having them renewed the garage has put just plain discs on the front.

Does anyone know whether standard equipment discs are plain or grooved and drilled??? I need to know because if the garage has down graded my brakes and charged me near £200 they will certainly be getting a letter of complaint from me!

ALso the brakes fade VERY EASILY!!! it is quite scary in fact! even at relatively slow speeds of 90-120 the brakes are cooked just after minor braking (e.g for junctions or roundabouts) i can't believe they should be this poor on a car that is easily capable of 150mph!! It is seriously worrying me!

Cheers everyone

Russ

Lex Luthor
02-07-2007, 01:33 PM
ALso the brakes fade VERY EASILY!!! it is quite scary in fact! even at relatively slow speeds of 90-120 the brakes are cooked just after minor braking (e.g for junctions or roundabouts) i can't believe they should be this poor on a car that is easily capable of 150mph!! It is seriously worrying me!


When was the brake fluid last changed ?

Space Cadet
02-07-2007, 04:45 PM
Definitely sounds like the brake fluid, would be worth upgrading to some Dot 5 and if youíre having your fluid replaced go for some braided hoses, both objectives are to firm up the pedal feel and reduce sponginess.

But one thing to consider is if youíve bedded your brakes in properly!?, they need say 20-30 miles or normal stop-start driving to take the surface off the pads and discs and then at least 3 really good hard 100-20 mph stops in quick succession (donít stop to 0) and then a few miles of normal driving to cool them down. This will bed the brakes in properly, although sounds like this might be a bit risky in your condition.

As for the previous drilled and grooved discs, these were defiantly fitted aftermarket by the previous owner, you didnít mention whether you took your car to an Audi dealer in which case they would have replaced them with OEM parts.

If the car is out of warranty itís always worth upgrading the discs and pads when they wear out, in some cases the upgraded versions are actually cheaper than the dealerís charge.

I wouldnít worry too much that theyíre not drilled and or grooved, find out if theyíre OEM parts, if not then you at least want OEM discs and pads then the upgraded fluid and hoses will do the trick.

You mention being downgraded, truthfully the OEM discs (if fitted) might actually be better quality than the previous drilled discs, it just depends on what was and has been fitted.

Find out and then we can discuss it some more.

rdj_s3_quattro
02-07-2007, 08:37 PM
Good tip!

Cheers mate, I honestly don't know when the fluid was changed last so I will get it changed, I will also try and get hold of some braided brake hoses.

I know it is extremely hard to guage, but any ideas how much (parts and lablour) would cost to do both hoses and fluid change? (just rough ball park figure would be good so i know if im getting ripped off)

Yeh, i went easy on the new brakes for 400 miles!! so hope that bedded them in nicely, your's was a good tip tho, saves driving like your stepping on eggshells for 200 miles! will try it next time.

It is a shame the brakes aren't up to scratch as i'm new to Audi ownership and love this car, poor braking can ruin a good handling car!!

Space Cadet
03-07-2007, 09:10 AM
Youíre not looking at a fortune for hoses and fluid, as a rough guide may be £150 plus labour but then you would pay for most of the labour just to do a fluid change so itís worth getting the hoses done at the same time.

Sorry to be gloomy about your brakes but you have probably done more harm than good by driving them carefully for 400 miles, you really have to just get the surfaces off (with a few miles of light driving) and then get some heat cycles into them ASAP, as advised above.

(Go onto say the Pagid site and see how they recommend bedding brakes it; it will be basically how Iíve advised.)

Not sure if itíll work now, but the best thing you can do is try the heat cycle ASAP.

You didnít mention whether you took your car to an Audi dealership and/or if they fitted OEM parts??

rdj_s3_quattro
04-07-2007, 09:53 PM
cheers,

yeah it was taken to non Audi garage.

they charged me £170 for discs and pads but they still feel pants! feel like i have been cheated out my money! I honestly can't believe std S3 brakes are as poor as mine! my father's std dieslel A3 (think its '05 plate) stops MILES better than my S3!!! I just can't understand why an A3 brakes better than an S3??? surely there must be somethin wrong wiv my brakes?? especially when an S3 is easily capable of 150mph (mines 7 yrs old and does 140 no sweat!!)

its a real shame, poor brakes spoil any performance car! Brakes are one of the most beneficial upgrades you can make to a car's performance!

What does everyone think to the Porshe 4 pot conversions i've seen?? or any aftermarket caliper conversions?? I fancy brembo but these are over £1500 i believe???

rdj_s3_quattro
04-07-2007, 10:05 PM
cheers,

yeah it was taken to non Audi garage.

they charged me £170 for discs and pads but they still feel pants! feel like i have been cheated out my money! I honestly can't believe std S3 brakes are as poor as mine! my father's std dieslel A3 (think its '05 plate) stops MILES better than my S3!!! I just can't understand why an A3 brakes better than an S3??? surely there must be somethin wrong wiv my brakes?? especially when an S3 is easily capable of 150mph (mines 7 yrs old and does 140 no sweat!!)

its a real shame, poor brakes spoil any performance car! Brakes are one of the most beneficial upgrades you can make to a car's performance!

What does everyone think to the Porshe 4 pot conversions i've seen?? or any aftermarket caliper conversions?? I fancy brembo but these are over £1500 i believe???

Space Cadet
05-07-2007, 04:57 PM
Unfortunately I think you need to cut your losses and unfortunately junk the discs and pads. I know that’s easy for me to say but **** happens and you obviously want to sort your your brakes out.

Take my advice and invest in some decent quality, i.e. top brand discs and pads, the like of Tarrox or Brembo or the new EBC ‘USR’ discs and some decent pads, the like of Mintex or Pagid, the Pagid RS4 pads are wicked, they squeal a little at cold but get some heat into them and literally abuse them and they’ll be fine.

A great combo is the EBC ‘USR’ disc and RS4 pads; you will be head butting the dash every time you brake (I had this on my Elise).

If you’re considering the Porsche set up, you obviously are reluctantly happy to spend a few quid – I truthfully wouldn’t bother, go for the USR/RS4 set-up front and back and get the braided hoses (Goodridge are the norm) and some upgraded DOT 5 fluid. You will obviously spend a few quid but will be a third of the Porsche set-up and not too far of the power.

Plus then you will have totally upgraded/renewed the brakes and can rest-happy.

I’ve actually had the Porsche 993 Turbo 4-pot set-up (there are a few sizes etc) and they’re made by Brembo, had them on a tuned-up Golf GTI MK4, they were awesome but come with various side-effects and high-costs, unless you were taking your S3 to mega bhp I would just upgrade with same-size discs and pads, fluid and hoses as above, plus also save yourself £1000.

Plus you might not actually be able to fit them behind your specific wheels – doesn’t just depend on size but the shape of the back of the spokes etc – I ended up going through two sets of almost identical RS4 reps after I had the Porsche/Brembo callipers fitted.

Plus without sounding sarcastic and please don’t take this the wrong way, but you/one pay for what you get, this time go to a proper trustworthy motorsport garage who know what they’re doing and get it done right this time.

Its not a chavy Nova 1.2, it’s a wicked S3, therefore it deserves being looked after and unfortunately because it’s a high-powered German car needs a few quid spent on it.

Whatever you do though – bed them in properly this time.

rdj_s3_quattro
05-07-2007, 11:20 PM
Cheers, I'll give what u say a go.

Yeah just another question, you seem to know your onions!

Did the 210 S3 have different calipers to the normal A3 of the same age (approx 2000)??? (I mean as of standard factory set up)

The reason i ask, and importantly need to know is that i bought my car second hand from a garge... to cut a long story short I've had many problems with it within the 3 month warranty..usual case of dealer wouldn't pay for the work as its 'not covered' by warranty.

Anyways I left my car with dealer and asked him to fix clutch and bakes, in the end had to pay him over a grand for this work, so I am goin to civil court regarding this matter to claim my money back, as he has breached the sales of good act by not confomring to selling safe goods...

The point of the matter is a third party garage seems to think he has 'downgraded' my clapers to standard A3 ones, not S3 ones as were on it originally. i unfortuantely cannot remember what the calipers looked like when i took it in, i seem to remember they didn't look anything special or any different to std A3 ones, i may be wrong tho!

I just need to know what are the std S3 calipers (2000) as if he has down graded my calipers, along with down grading my discs (previously grooved and drilled) I will be claiming for this too,

many thanks

:beerchug:

Space Cadet
10-07-2007, 02:57 PM
Sorry mate, couldnít comment, the only way to find out would be sweet-talking a guy at the service desk at an Audi garage and find out if the have different part numbers.

He might be able to do this over the phone, why not give it a try, just explain your problem and try and appeal to his better side.

I would guess that the S3 had bigger callipers and discs, for example my A3 3.2 has monster callipers and discs and from just looking at other models are defiantly different sizes.

This garage sounds unbelievable, not sure if I read that right!? how on earth would/could they replace your callipers without consulting you?

If though at the end of the day theyíve fitted some smaller callipers and you want/need to replace them then why not bite the bullet and go for the Porsche/Bremboís rather than paying for new S3 callipers.

As mentioned, I wouldnít take my car to anywhere else other than an Audi main dealer or a professional tuner, such as AMD, why not drop the car it at one, tell them the situation and ask them whatís not original. Perhaps youíll spend an hourís labour but at least youíll know once and for all.

As mentioned, the original discs would not have been drilled and grooved, so if he has fitted OEM S3 discs then he canít be held for this - you would have thought he would have mentioned it though.