OIL CONSUMPTION IN NEW PASSAT 1.9TDI

[mac500]

Hi
Having just taken delivery of a new VW Passat 1.9 TDI which has been factory filled with long life oil designed for 20,000 miles my attention has been drawn to a technical report on a Skoda 1.9 diesel the engine of which is, I understand, identical to that in the Passat. The report states that these engines are filled with synthetic (long life)lubricant on the production line which can prevent the oil rings bedding in unless the engines are revved hard regularly. This can result in such heavy oil consumption that the owner might top up with the equivalent of 4 to 6 oil changes in 20,000 miles which at £13 a litre would cost £400 in oil over 20,000 miles.
The report states that oil consumption of up to 650 miles a litre is considered "acceptable". I would not find that very acceptable. The VW Passat owner’s manual states that oil consumption can be up to 1.0 litres/1000km
I find the above report to be very disturbing. I have never before owned a car that burned oil at anything approaching that rate even after 70 or 80000 miles.
Has anyone found a way to reduce oil consumption in the Passat eg. by heavy revving as suggested above or is it something that has to be lived with?
Is there any technical reason why I should not replace the long life oil with regular oil if the former is preventing the oil rings from bedding in properly. ?
Could I top up with regular oil and make a complete change at say 10000 miles?
Suggestions or comments would be welcomed.
Thank you.

[moreski]

I was just in at my vw/audi specialist this morning and there was a very sorry looking guy in there with a beautiful looking audi A4 estate, 2 years old, which had run out of oil and is now knackered! At least you've realised yours will burn oil and so can top it up.

The mechanic reckoned that this new 20,000 mile servicing is v. bad news for cars, but is proving to be great for garages! He thinks that the best bet is to do an oil/filter change every 10,000 not with long life, but with the appropriate high quality PD engine oil. I think he's absolutely right. If there's one thing that's guaranteed to wreck a deisel engine, it is not changing the oil/filter regularly enough.

I think the reasons they've all gone for the 'variable servicing/long life' are:

1) To a business, cost wise, you only have to service your car/fleet 1/2 as many times; and
2) The problems don't become apparent until after the warranty period and the main dealers couldn't care less then, as we the owners pay, not them!

I think your best bet is to find a VW/Audi Specialist (NOT main dealer) and run it past them.

Good luck!

[mac500]

Many thanks for your reply. In the absence of any sound technical reason for staying with the long life oil (which may not be doing the engine any good at all) I intend to switch to good quality PD engine oil at the earliest opportunity.
In fact I only do about 4000 miles per annum and my intention is to change the oil once per year irrespective of what mileage I have covered and to change the oil filter every 8 to 10000 miles.
I do appreciate your interest.
Thank you

[Gaz the Cab]

Many thanks for your reply. In the absence of any sound technical reason for staying with the long life oil (which may not be doing the engine any good at all) I intend to switch to good quality PD engine oil at the earliest opportunity.
In fact I only do about 4000 miles per annum and my intention is to change the oil once per year irrespective of what mileage I have covered and to change the oil filter every 8 to 10000 miles.
I do appreciate your interest.
Thank you


Personally, and for the sake of a few quid I would suggest you change the oil filter when you change the oil..........I always do.

[glynnd]

I worked as a salesman at a skoda dealer and always informed customers buying a new car that if their daily mileage was less than 25 per day then there was no point in having long life oil in anyway as the service indicator would still probably come on at around 10k intervals.
I have a passat which has done 90k in 3 years and has always used pd oil not long life, my advice is to keep clear of the long life stuff. With reagrd to running in drive it hard from day one, I did it with all my new demos and I can tell you I did not have to top up the oil as much as my colleague who drove his car like miss daisy!

[mac500]

Personally, and for the sake of a few quid I would suggest you change the oil filter when you change the oil..........I always do.
Thank you. You are quite right. I will change the filter each time I change the oil. I had a Mercedes 300D and the oil and filter changes were at 6000 miles or once a year.

[mac500]

I worked as a salesman at a skoda dealer and always informed customers buying a new car that if their daily mileage was less than 25 per day then there was no point in having long life oil in anyway as the service indicator would still probably come on at around 10k intervals.
I have a passat which has done 90k in 3 years and has always used pd oil not long life, my advice is to keep clear of the long life stuff. With reagrd to running in drive it hard from day one, I did it with all my new demos and I can tell you I did not have to top up the oil as much as my colleague who drove his car like miss daisy!
Many thanks. I intend to switch to pd oil but am undecided as to when I should make the switch. I presume that it would be wrong to top up the long life oil with pd oil and make a complete change over at say 5000 miles. It seems a waste to drain off and dump this very expensive long life oil without getting some value from it. I have never bought the stuff and don't know what it costs but I have seen a figure of £13/litre quoted. I will probably make the change when I the first top up is due which will probably be at less than 1000 miles.

[glynnd]

Many thanks. I intend to switch to pd oil but am undecided as to when I should make the switch. I presume that it would be wrong to top up the long life oil with pd oil and make a complete change over at say 5000 miles. It seems a waste to drain off and dump this very expensive long life oil without getting some value from it. I have never bought the stuff and don't know what it costs but I have seen a figure of £13/litre quoted. I will probably make the change when I the first top up is due which will probably be at less than 1000 miles.


Make the switch sooner rather than later as the running in characteristics are different with long life and pd oil

[Roy]

Before you switch to PD oil from check if you have a DPF (particulate filter, the manual states you HAVE to use SLX III longlife (vw 507.00) oil if you have DPF, the ash from PD oil will damage the filter. BTW it also says don't use Biodiesel if you have DPF. The only way I know of to check if you have DPF is to look at the sticker in the fuel cap cover, if it say's Don't use Biodiesel it has DPF.

Roy

[glynnd]

I thought vw recommends the use of bio on any pd unit post 1996?

[Roy]

I thought vw recommends the use of bio on any pd unit post 1996?

Maybe so, but not a PD equipped with DPF :mad:

In the B6 the 1.9(105PS) and the 2.0(140PS0 TDi's are both available with and without DPF.

Roy

[glynnd]

you learn something new every day! whats the advantage of the dpf and why doesnt vee dub fit it as standard?

[Roy]

The DPF captures 95% of the soot produced by a diesel, when the filter becomes saturated the system initiates a cleaning cycle and the soot is burnt off. There's an indicator on the speedo to say the filters saturated, if this stays on your to take the car for a run at around 2k rpm in 4th or 5th gear for 15 mins, this is the ideal condition for a 'burn up' :Blush: . It's like the high tech equivalent of telling the Mrs you have to take the dog for a walk.

Anyway, it seems to work as I never get big black clouds out of it when I BOOT it :beerchug: .

I think there's a tax advantage too, a couple of % I think if you have DPF as well as Euro IV.

Roy

[Chilly]

Hello, the original question on the thread was about running in a PD engine. I have found this page really interesting...

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=464223

It might be of some use to others.

Chilly

[mac500]

Before you switch to PD oil from check if you have a DPF (particulate filter, the manual states you HAVE to use SLX III longlife (vw 507.00) oil if you have DPF, the ash from PD oil will damage the filter. BTW it also says don't use Biodiesel if you have DPF. The only way I know of to check if you have DPF is to look at the sticker in the fuel cap cover, if it say's Don't use Biodiesel it has DPF.

Roy

:zx11:Roy
Many thanks for your advice although your message was not what I wanted to hear. From what you say it looks as thought I will have to continue to use long life synthetic oil, as specified by VW, that is if a DPF is fitted, which I suspect is the case although I am not absolutely sure. The VW manual which came with the car includes the specification for 77KW TDI engines with diesel particulate filter and 77KWTDI engines without diesel particulate filter. It doesn’t tell me which one I have. Significantly though the specification includes a note "It is not possible to use RME fuel (Bio diesel) acc. to DIN EN 14214 (FAME)" in respect of both engine types. The sticker in the fuel cap cover would not therefore confirm whether or not the car has DPF as you suggested.
I don’t expect to do more than 3 to 4000 miles per year and the use of long life synthetic oil appeared to make no sense to me. The need to top up every 1000 kilometres is a complete turn off. To describe the synthetic oil as long life appears to me to be a bit of a misnomer as over 20000 miles it will be continuously replenished with the equivalent of four to six oil changes at an astronomical cost.
Why do VW provide a choice of engine? Could it be that the engines with PDF are intended for high mileage business use preferred by fleet managers and engines without PDF are better suited for the low mileage private motorist? The specification shows that engines with PDF have greater co2 emission and fuel consumption is also slightly higher so PDF does have a downside!
If my car is not fitted with a DPF can I use PD oil changed at 5 to 6000 mile or once a year intervals?

[6Speeder]

Mac500, this is my personal experience and opinion. If your car has been using Longlife oil from new then i would continue using it. My car (130 PD Sport 2003) has nearly 60000miles on it and has used longlife since new.It maybe uses 1 litre per 18000 miles (its average oil change interval).
Its best not to use bio diesel in my opinion, and you can't really compare whats being said on fred's tdi forum either as their diesel has alot higher sulpher content than ours (i subscribe to that forum also). VW of USA also don't use longlife oil either at the last count i checked (upto 2004).
My advice is leave it with the longlife and don't 'nancy' the car, and don't let it labour in the higher gears.

Hope this helps

6

[Roy]

If you have a B6 Passat with 1.9 or 2.0 TDi without DPF you can opt for Variable servicing, using Castrol SLX III VW oil. You can also opt for standard servicing, interval 10k miles, using Castrol Edge oil. The dealer sets the ECU at time of supply and also log the type of service schedule in the VW vehicle Database.

If you have DPF fitted you still have those options but you must use SLX III oil for both service schedules. (to protect the DPF). VW also say you can only use ULSD fuel if you have DPF fitted.

I have a 20 TDi B6, it has a sticker behind the fuel cap which says No BioDiesel, my mate has a 1.9 TDi B6 with no such sign behind fuel cap door.

The question is how do you know fot sure if you have a DPF fitted or not?

I've trawled for info on this, I thought it must be documented within the chassis or engine number scheme but I've failed to find any info.

Roy

[mac500]

If you have a B6 Passat with 1.9 or 2.0 TDi without DPF you can opt for Variable servicing, using Castrol SLX III VW oil. You can also opt for standard servicing, interval 10k miles, using Castrol Edge oil. The dealer sets the ECU at time of supply and also log the type of service schedule in the VW vehicle Database.

If you have DPF fitted you still have those options but you must use SLX III oil for both service schedules. (to protect the DPF). VW also say you can only use ULSD fuel if you have DPF fitted.

I have a 20 TDi B6, it has a sticker behind the fuel cap which says No BioDiesel, my mate has a 1.9 TDi B6 with no such sign behind fuel cap door.

The question is how do you know fot sure if you have a DPF fitted or not?

I've trawled for info on this, I thought it must be documented within the chassis or engine number scheme but I've failed to find any info.

Roy

Thanks again Roy.What was bugging me most was reports that I had come across that oil consumption when using synthetic oil would be so high that the quantity of oil used for topping up could be equivalent to 4 or 5 oil changes between services. The statement in the VW manual that oil consumption can be up to 1.0 litres/1000 km seemed to confirm those reports.
I am now satisfied that such high levels of consumption need not be the case and intend to continue to use the long life oil with standard (10000 mile) servicing.

[mac500]

Mac500, this is my personal experience and opinion. If your car has been using Longlife oil from new then i would continue using it. My car (130 PD Sport 2003) has nearly 60000miles on it and has used longlife since new.It maybe uses 1 litre per 18000 miles (its average oil change interval).
Its best not to use bio diesel in my opinion, and you can't really compare whats being said on fred's tdi forum either as their diesel has alot higher sulpher content than ours (i subscribe to that forum also). VW of USA also don't use longlife oil either at the last count i checked (upto 2004).
My advice is leave it with the longlife and don't 'nancy' the car, and don't let it labour in the higher gears.

Hope this helps

6

6 speeder. Thank you. Your message is very reassuring. Only 1 litre of top up oil in 18000 miles. Fantastic. I had previously thought that somewhere in the region of 29 litres might have been necessary in that mileage. Hence my concern. I would quite happily settle for 1 or even 2 litres in 10000 miles. My car has less than 200 miles on the clock so it would not be too late to make a switch from the long life oil but I do not intend to do so. Nor have I any intention of using bio diesel.
I will not nancy the car and use the gearbox to avoid labouring the engine in higher gears. Your advice is very much appreciated.

[Roy]

Just one more thing Mac, don't judge your cars oil usage until it has at least 5k miles on the clock, the oil usage on a new engine can be very high until the oil rings bed in.
Roy

[mac500]

Thank you roy.
I had gathered that to be the case. I hope it is not as high as 1 litre/600 miles though.

[parthasd]

Thanks for the above posts.

I have a 02/52 Passat, 130 TDIPD from new on long-life variable service. I have done 48k from new, mostly on motorways. The service intervals have been 21k and 22k using long-life oil (as dictated by the on board computer). I have so far used only 2.5 lit of oil from new. I think this is not as bad.

I don't know whether it comes with a DPF or not. I have so far been not very keen to rev up the engine. Should I? (I have noticed black smoke coming from the exhaust on occasions when I floor the gas pedal. BTW I get an impressive average MPG of around 55).

Suggestions please.

Thanks,